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The problem with Raja's BGM

Topic started by Arvind Kumar (@ ip32.santa-clara6.ca.pub-ip.psi.net) on Sun Jul 5 23:54:12 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I strongly feel that Raja's BGM is overrated. He does give excellent BGM, but the BGM is bit too much. In fact BGM should be used sparingly to get the best effect. BGM in hollywood films is used
seldomly and the effect is really good.

To give some examples of overuse of BGM by Raja:-

(a) Nayagan - the bell and flute music was repeated ad nauseum.
(b) Mouna Ragam - ditto with Shahnai music.
(c) Agni Nakshatram - the thunder like music whenever Prabhu and kartik
cross each other.

I can go on with many more examples, where the overuse of BGM kills the joy.
A question: Under whose jurisdiction does BGM lies. Is it Director's or Raja's fault to
overuse BGM.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Arasu Dakshin (@ 171-86-69.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 12 20:31:04 EDT 1998
  
  I visit this forum and read a lot but hesitate to post my comments. But now since people are talking about BGM in Tamil Films I think I need to say something.. IR has definitely made a significant impact in terms of quality re-recording and BGM. For instance (my all time favorite movie) Mouna Ragam has a great score. The list is endless. Many people have missed this movie "Mahanadhi"... If you see this movie you are sure to have a heavy heart and moist eyes... All because of the BGM churned out by IR.. The scene where Kamal's daughter is found and rescued .... is a simple example.. The key to good BGM is when you fail to notice the music as "BGM".. it should blend with the scene.
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ 237.houston-03.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Jul 12 23:24:39 EDT 1998
  
  Hey srinath...kudos for talking about "Idhayam" the re recording still lingers in my mind...
  By the way the guy who started the topic was bored and needed a plethora of users pour in here.
  Raja is the best and only one when it comes to BGM,PERIOD. Now please close this thread it will be atrocious to discuss about this anymore
  
  
• From: N.GANESH (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Mon Jul 20 15:08:27 EDT 1998
  
  guys,
  i have been a regular visitor to the tfm page.as far as IR's BGM goes i'll say that he is tailor made for that.in fact i have the BGM of idayathai thirudadhae.it's realee mind boggling.particularly raja brings the emotion with his music in the very first scene( i mean the title score).it's a slight variation of oh priya priya ... song.the violn and the string instruments he uses when aruna(the doctor conveys that nagarjuna has cancer) is beyond comparison....
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ ) on: Wed Dec 1 05:48:24 EST 1999
  
  Hello Pals,
  
  Iam a Theevira Rasigan of IR. No Music Director can match the BGM style of IR. One great example is Bhaarathiraaja's "Sigappu Rojakkal" which was released in early 80. When it was remade in Hindi, only some songs were included in the film and the Music Directors (Lakshmikanth-Pyarelal), were really astonished the way the BGM was scored in the whole film. So it was decided to keep the BGM scored by IR itself to the film in Hindi (Red Roses). Such is the greatness of IR's BGM.
  
  
  Also IR was the one who used Tablas, flute etc. for chasing sequences in many films like Nooravadu Naal, Amaithipadai etc.
  
  
  Waiting ur response
  
  
• From: Arasu Dakshin (@ fw2.clmt.com) on: Wed Dec 1 09:33:11 EST 1999
  
  I think the MD for Red Roses was RD Burman.
  
  
• From: Rajesh & prakash (@ unknown-24-6.pilot.net) on: Wed Dec 1 10:10:21 EST 1999
  
  Hi buddies,
  We strongly believe that IR is the best BGM composer We had come across.
  To cite few examples of his master pieces
  like Muthal mariyathai, Kadalora kavithaigal
  The list is endless. We guess u guys would agree with us.
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ ncconsulting-gw.customer.dsl.alter.net) on: Wed Dec 1 11:56:09 EST 1999
  
  Arvind, this is a very interesting observation. IR has no doubt produced many a dramatic and approrpriate BGM, but there are a lot of short, rapid and repetitive phrases. Unlike Hollywood movie scores, where the BGM sounds more spread out and like a subtle accompaniment. Got to read more of this thread
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.153) on: Thu Dec 2 01:05:45 EST 1999
  
  If some director demands non-repetitive, yet special BGM, Raja has done that too...check the BGM of TikTikTik.. Raja himself was thrilled with those pieces, in all probability, that he got them released in the disc of Ninaivellam Nithya..
  
  
• From: MusicLover (@ proxy.cowan.edu.au) on: Thu Dec 2 07:23:33 EST 1999
  
  Arvind,
  
  Just like Arasu Daksin, I visit this forum many times but hesitate to give comments. I feel that BGM for a film is very important for the success of a film. It is sad to note that many new MD's neglect this aspect and concentrate only on the songs.
  
  In BGM, there is no one to beat IR. Director Mahindran once quoted that there were no takers for his film MULUM MALARUM without rerecording. Once IR scored the BGM, there was a huge rush to distribute this film. IR's BGM scores in MY dear Kutichathan, Sigapu rojakal, vidiyum varai Kathiru, Mahanadhi, Nayakan were praised by many.
  Nobody can degrade his genius.
  
  
  Musiclover
  
  
  
• From: RaviAnanthanarayan (@ bay-72.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Dec 2 10:00:05 EST 1999
  
  Arvind
  
  Though you started this thread some time in 98, I am a recent entrant to TFM and this thread has become alive again.
  
  I am sorry to say, but you don't seem to be knowing much about music in general and the concept of BGM/RR in particular. It is obvious from your poor contributions to the discussions compared to the thoughts of others, that you started this just for the heck of it.
  
  And add to that, you have exposed your ignorance of BGM in Hollywood films. If you care to have a look at the chat transcript of John Williams on Episode I, he says that the Star War films require BGM in a non-stop continuous way. And that is how he has done all the four Star War movies till now. There is no bench mark BGM style called Hollywood style BGM. What is required is composing a score to go with the story/scene/emotions. With this criteria, what IR has been doing in TFM is some thing of a path breaking and bench mark quality efforts.
  
  Unfortunately, none of the other MDs were not able to learn from his works.
  
  What is more regrettablble is the fact that ARR was IR's # 2 Keyboard player for nearly four years and had the opportunity to watch his RR creation in close quarters. Still from his present RR scores it is apparent that either ARR has not learnt anything or purposedly wants to avoid but in the process has not done anything new to contribute to the overall quality of his films thru RR.
  
  The other character called Murali, who is doing the BGM for Deva movies was also a KB player with IR for nearly 7/8 years till Deva became a regular film music director in 1991. He tries to copy IR's style in his RR works, but lacks the knowledge and judgement to decide the cues and also the ideas about selection and usage of specific instruments for a BGM score.
  
  It is always a puzzle to me that when as an ordinary music lover if I can learn and understand so much about RR music (which anyone with some amount of aptitude can do with a couple of films of IR), how these professinal musicians who have had the opportunity to work with the great man have not learnt anything at all.
  
  To answer the question on "jurisdiction" for his films, it is IR who selects the cues for music. But when he is ready with the score and syncs with the visuals and during the take process, if the director is available then he checks with him for his opinion, whether this is enough or does he want any change to convey some thing else.. kind of questions. But the ground reality is that most of the directors just finish the finl editing and leave the rest to IR to fill up. Because IR has built up a strong reputation to accurately the gauge the mood of a film and what kind of musical treatment it requires. And his judgements in selecting the cues and the choice of instruements and score is always the best possible . So people normally leave that editorial freedom also to him. And it is a fact, that just for the sake of giving some suggestions if you try to poke your nose in his job even before he has created some thing for that scene/reel, then he does not relish that. But such instances are rare. In general people rely on his judgement and what ever be the kind of film that has come out finally, he has never shirked his responsibility. Even in this low phase of IR(as far as his song sales are concerned) nobody denies the fact that still there is no in this part of the world to come any where near him in background scoring.
  
  Finally a request. There is a separate thread to discuss BGM and a couple of threads to discuss IR's music in songs and BGM. So please do not clutter the forum with unnecessary new threads and that too when you can not make any meaningful contributions.
  
  Sorry if I have been harsh, but this sort of thing has been happening in TFM/DF quite frequently now a days.
  
  RA
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: arun (@ evander.mcc.wwwcache.ja.net) on: Thu Dec 2 10:17:21 EST 1999
  
  if any one does not know whats BGM
  then just any bits of rajas music
  and that will define BGM
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ vdslppp102.sttl.uswest.net) on: Thu Dec 2 10:55:29 EST 1999
  
  One of best thing raja gave to tfm is rerecording, though recrecording was done with attention before raja, raja gave it a shape (vadivam) , let us talk something else,
  
  
• From: Hehehe (@ ) on: Wed Jun 5 10:39:57 EDT 2002
  
  Hello!Where can I download Anjali,Mounaragam BGMs from?
  
  
• From: Ravi R (@ 66.156.161.214) on: Mon Jun 17 20:03:55 EDT 2002
  
  Well, Raaja is so sophisticated,he usually leaves the tone, timbre and repetition of certains parts of a music in a film for translation by the audience. A bit too far and sophisticate a style for indian movie go'ers.. but fortunately many have appreicated that... And many directors have testified that..what they were fumbling with dialogues or vague camera angles.. raaja does it with his wand...
  
  "Kaathalukku mariyathai" is one example.. it has some amazing pieces..interwoven in short bursts just like ones mood and emotions... It was pure magic to watch the movie..carried on by music right to the end...(The violin piece in the climax.... Sheeeesh...Astounding.. )..
  
  So it depends on how you view it...
  
  
• From: suradha (@ 202.54.135.195) on: Thu Mar 6 15:03:12 EST 2003
  
  i strongly feel that u don't know anything about music. most of the eminent misicians in the west are stunned by listening to heyram,nothing but wind and how to name it. there his music is compared with the standard of Mozart and Bach the two persons without whose names a article on western classical music would be complete. ilayaraja is like them
  
  

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