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LAGAAN LOOSES OSCAR FALLS IN "NO MAN'S LAND"FROM BOSNIA.

Topic started by SHYAMSUNDAR.U. (@ 61.11.79.75) on Mon Mar 25 01:59:38 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

VERY IRONIC in a picture on cricket(LAGAAN) the oscar award has landed in "no man's land" from BOSNIA.SADLY,SHYAM SUNDAR.U.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 27 16:49:52 EST 2002
  
  I think the ends justify the means. if the masses make musicals successful and never show signs of boredom ever after 50 years, the film makers have no need to shift gears - there is no need for evolution. evolution is always caused by forces that change the equations for survival. I don't see the public getting bored of musicals. if k3g, hahk are any indication we are moving in quite the opposite direction!
  In my view, there has always been evolution even in a "dynamically constant" platform of musicals. we had evolution in stories from historicals initially to ettu-patti or NRI themes right now, from 30-odd carnatic bit songs in the early near-dance-dramas to what we have right now.
  even the song-less movies that are starting to appear are custom-made, demand-driven for the urban/NRI crowd which is assumed to have a intellect that rejects song-dance routines.
  In any day, I'd rather sit and watch movies with songs that aid the narration - like "evano oruvan" from Alaipayudhey for eg. I've always wondered how superior we are in music while our stories themselves suck. IR is compared with Bach, and ARR with Michael Jackson. But nobody sane can compare a P.Vasu with a Martin Scorcese. What made us deserve IR and P.Vasu at the same time?
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 27 16:58:51 EST 2002
  
  I've always wondered... is a separate para. correction-ukku varundhugiren.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Mar 27 17:13:37 EST 2002
  
  Well Naaz.. those movies werent released in a small period of time and when those movies were realesed (like 1 summer had 3 of those movies..that was the max) .. it was like an off beat theme..
  
  it was like after a lot of sophistication.. hollywood was barbarically going back to "early man" days and make a brutal comedy..
  
  that was variety and it was fun too.. Scary movie II, American Pie II and omse movies flopped.. the reason why is what I am shouting about..
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Mar 27 17:22:05 EST 2002
  
  s0,
  
  the thing about IR and ARR being in movies is that..their music is situation driven and director driven.. sometimes even star-driven..
  
  i want to know IR's own reason to make music. a song that reflects his feeling naturally..
  
  not a song... because a director had given him a situation. that is okay... but I want the other thing also...
  
  but i agree with all your points! our songs have turned out much better than movies.. but unfortunately.. we dont have vehicles to carry the songs..
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.92.18) on: Wed Mar 27 18:20:02 EST 2002
  
  I don't know if I'd like songs without the situations. IR's forays into non-film albums were great. but, I don't think I have the musical maturity to appreciate the technicalities of the song, including his feelings. I like htni because the tunes are great, not because I see the association with Bach/Mozart/carnatic. I think by vehicles, you mean the situations. songs need to fit into a context. there should be a theme. we don't have good situations to carry the songs. we have just garish & lewd dance sequences.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 67.34.132.86) on: Wed Mar 27 19:34:24 EST 2002
  
  How natural/'real' are BGMs? Are they to be treated differently than S&D?
  I don't hear any violins around me.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 66.137.224.62) on: Wed Mar 27 21:24:35 EST 2002
  
  sarat,
  
  u are still stuck in natural/real philosophy.. please read the discussions carefully. that is not the reason why songs are out of place..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Mar 27 21:57:09 EST 2002
  
  Songs as background theme and narrative devices work well. It is the lip-syncing and gyrations and 101-extras in jigna choreography that is decidedly juvenile and embarassing (to any viewer with average intelligence.)
  
  Background scores can be over-the-top also in Hollywood productions - especially the costume dramas/epic/sci-fi movies.
  
  Lagaan would have also been half its length (or at least 40 mins shorter) had the songs been deleted or omitted. The film would have had a more visceral impact and would have avoided all "commercial" trimmings all together. Alas, that was not the case!
  
  The middle-road is a good one. Songs (no singing by protagonists) as narrative/development vehicles and no choreographed jangujikka - maybe, just some situational and natural (amatuerish even)dancing if the plot demands it...That would still seem like maturity, without losing out on the supposedly "S&D is a must" tradition.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu Mar 28 04:55:57 EST 2002
  
  >>Lagaan would have also been half its length (or at least 40 mins shorter) had the songs been deleted or omitted. The film would have had a more visceral impact and would have avoided all "commercial" trimmings all together<<
  
  Well I somehow felt that in the case of Lagaan, MOST (not all) of the song gelled well with the story. The bhajan, the "radha kaise na jale" one, the english-hindi songs seemed in place. A few were of course just "put into" the film. In some of them, like "ghanana ghanana..." the dances and the music/orchestration did not suit the overall rural backdrop of the movie and the period which it is set in.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu Mar 28 04:56:08 EST 2002
  
  >>Lagaan would have also been half its length (or at least 40 mins shorter) had the songs been deleted or omitted. The film would have had a more visceral impact and would have avoided all "commercial" trimmings all together<<
  
  Well I somehow felt that in the case of Lagaan, MOST (not all) of the songs gelled well with the story. The bhajan, the "radha kaise na jale" one, the english-hindi songs seemed in place. A few were of course just "put into" the film. In some of them, like "ghanana ghanana..." the dances and the music/orchestration did not suit the overall rural backdrop of the movie and the period which it is set in.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Thu Mar 28 06:46:30 EST 2002
  
  Good points Naaz, Bharat...
  
  s0 has some wonderful insights too !
  
  >>I think the ends justify the means. if the masses make musicals successful and never show signs of boredom ever after 50 years, the film makers have no need to shift gears - there is no need for evolution. evolution is always caused by forces that change the equations for survival. I don't see the public getting bored of musicals. if k3g, hahk are any indication we are moving in quite the opposite direction!
  In my view, there has always been evolution even in a "dynamically constant" platform of musicals. we had evolution in stories from historicals initially to ettu-patti or NRI themes right now, from 30-odd carnatic bit songs in the early near-dance-dramas to what we have right now.
  even the song-less movies that are starting to appear are custom-made, demand-driven for the urban/NRI crowd which is assumed to have a intellect that rejects song-dance routines.
  In any day, I'd rather sit and watch movies with songs that aid the narration - like "evano oruvan" from Alaipayudhey for eg. I've always wondered how superior we are in music while our stories themselves suck. IR is compared with Bach, and ARR with Michael Jackson. But nobody sane can compare a P.Vasu with a Martin Scorcese. What made us deserve IR and P.Vasu at the same time?<<
  
  But don't you all wonder why on one side of the world, we have so much of "progress" and "evolution" as far as cinema is concerned and on the other side of the world we have so much of chaos ?
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Thu Mar 28 06:50:29 EST 2002
  
  BTW s0...I raised a ruckus once in this forum by comparing the working methods of IR to Mozart and ARR's to Beethoven !!
  
  

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