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Creativity of ARR

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:20:00 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

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• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Fri May 14 12:20:50 EDT 1999
  
  Hello!!
  
  I am reposting this under ARR's creativity thread because I guess it belongs here.
  
  This is about 'Minsarakanna' in Padaiyappa. Did anybody notice that ARR has tried to start the pallavi not from 'samam' but 1/2 atksharam after 'samam'. He however starts the 3rd line of the pallavi back in 'samam'. Now, I am not sure why he did this?! Usually when a particular song starts after 'samam', it is usually (not always) for the reason that the last line of the pallavi extends into the first line of the pallavi and connects with the starting word of the pallavi.
  
  I did not see any reason why 'Minsarakanna' must start after the samam. Has anybody else noticed this? Looking for comments from Geetha etc...
  
  
• From: mukund (@ bart.americas.nokia.com) on: Fri May 14 12:26:33 EDT 1999
  
  MS,
  
  What do u mean by "interludes are not deviating" ?
  and "IR's interludes are off the normal course" ??
  
  One thing is in ARR's melodius songs - like the one you have written - typically you have single flow of melodic piece and very few instruments in the background - (a bell chime for eg). And interludes expand a little bit on that. Emotions are brought forth by the melody (I mean raaga in the song). A lot of times ARR brings emotional appeal by changing pace and the scale of the song.
  Eg. en kadhale, anbendra mazaiyile, oh vennila etc.
  
  In IR it is not linear like this. One aspect I have felt regarding his orchestral pieces is that - the emotional feel just does not stand out so conspicuosly but ends up impacting you on a much stronger level. For eg Avathaaram songs . I was just listening to Aridhaarathai poosi koLLa aasai Listen to these lines - "oorukaa perukkaa aasai naan pattathu" - very simple lines with not much impact when just listened without the accompanying
  background flute piece. But with the flute it is transformed. Given this nature his interludes are not a deviation to me - but in fact a manifestation of the same feeling in different way.
  
  Tell me one thing - Have you ever felt a loss of feeling once interludes comes along - his, IR's interludes maintain the continuity in feelings.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ bart.americas.nokia.com) on: Fri May 14 12:27:51 EDT 1999
  
  MS,
  
  Add one more line to the starting para:
  
  "Please explain !"
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Fri May 14 13:26:01 EDT 1999
  
  Mukund:
  
  My intention was to point at the "not so complicated" type of interludes of ARR. I personally feel that a "deviation" from the "normal course" is like a shift in scale, shift in rhythm etc.. which do not seem to be very "similar" to the main tune. For eg compare the prelude and the second interlude of "poove sempoove". Had I heard them separately, barely would I have recognized that they are constituents of the same song. But, in case of ARR, "oh veNNila" for eg., the violin interlude itself is representative of the whole song. It is almost like the main tune.
  
  This is what I intented to say.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Fri May 14 13:29:08 EDT 1999
  
  Your post exactly conveys what I tried. I accept I have not "felt" any discontinuity but 'seen' it only apparently in IR's melodies.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri May 14 15:31:36 EDT 1999
  
  Murali Shankar,
  I hope you fare better with this "deviating interludes" angle in comparing the two MDs. I have a feeling you might, since you are a celebrated IR fan and have musical knowledge to back up your claims. Here I'm sitting with pessimistically crossed fingers, hoping that the pseudonym psychos stay away from this thread at least and let meaningful discourse rise back from the dead.
  
  Better yet, you can just talk about ARR and why you appreciate what he does with interludes rather than resorting to compare him with the other behemoth.
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Fri May 14 15:46:58 EDT 1999
  
  ARR is not taking chances on interludes, already he takes a few thousand hours to layer o layer songs and on top of that you ask him interludes then his story will be podiyappa only. Interludes and arr are two separate concepts here please
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Fri May 14 15:48:31 EDT 1999
  
  Udhaya:
  
  Long time since I got something from you :-). Celeberated IR fan - me ? hmm..I think I was the one who was seriously discussing about the overlooked melodies of ARR in the 'Is arr .. stuff' thread. I admit I have a passion for IR but have not denounced ARR when his efforts were appealing. I perfectly understand your apprehension that 'pseudonym psychos' ( hope Iam not in this list :-) will make this thread deviate from the normality.
  
  But, by now you must have seen that I am person who appreciates through comparisons - just another way of learning - I believe. Despite my best efforts for singular appraisal, I land up seeing an ARR song IRish or IR song ARRish. That is the way it works for me. Hope it does not meddle with the DF's standards.
  
  
• From: bb - a pseudonym, but not a psycho(hopefully):) (@ bernstein.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Fri May 14 18:00:50 EDT 1999
  
  some thoughts:
  the songs that MS mentions are songs that i think germinate from a small idea and are left in the incubator. one thing i like about ARR is that in such songs, he doesn't bring any unwanted fluff/jazzy stuffinto it. as a result, in the middle of the song, when he introduces percussion, it is so gratifying and stands out. a good example will be the usage of tabla in "ini achcham achcham illai".
  
  a good thing about these songs is his good selection of singers. i am amazed at the difference in quality of the chorus singers of IR and ARR. IR's chorus singers sound like people who want to spoil the mood of the song:)
  
  another commonality that can be attributed to the song is its slow ascend and descend of swaras. though i am not an expert in this, i think that the progression of swarams in aarohanam/avarohanam are very slow in these songs. sometimes, i feel as though ARR has done some of his songs in as few notes as possible. this is also in stark contrast to IR's broad usage of octaves. even a song with a recurring swaram(loop?starting point?..can't get a better word) like "inji iduppazhagi" goes easily and fast into higher octaves.
  
  also, it will be an interesting exercise to find out the common raagams that ARR uses for these songs. i am sure they will be related or will be mostly janyams/one bit flips of each other or so.
  
  another thing i like is his usage of mirudhangam. brings a majesty to the song, fits in with the mood easily than the thabla. IR's forays into using mirudhangam are limited, due to his unparalled experimentations with tabla, mELam etc.
  
  the basic diff is in their approach to a sad song. several of the songs that MS has listed are melancholies, and IR and ARR differ widely in this. IR uses instruments to bring in the mood ( the shehnai, trumpet, the sad flute), whereas ARR avoids them as much as possible. one can see an evolution (deliberate?) in ARR's approach. his "ennaaththaa ponnaaththaa" is very IRish, with its high pitched instruments bringing the sadness to the song. later, he refined more. the beat structure was also taken off the percussion mostly. a song by IR which comes closest to ARR's style of functioning is "solai pasunkiLiyE". i guess it can be easily converted to a typical ARR song.
  
  MS, pOdhumaa IR, ARR comparison:)))
  
  
• From: STS (@ 99-ppp-a.tnt09.agis.net) on: Sat May 15 04:43:07 EDT 1999
  
  Creative Recycle King = ARR
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sun May 16 14:58:24 EDT 1999
  
  That was insightful bb. Reg mridhangam: The song "Sahiyae nee thaan thuNaiye" and "thangamey thamizukkilaai" is a very good example. For IR it would be "thakida thathithimi" and "aayiram thaamarai". In the later the song its usage as the lead in the prelude is mesmerizing. To me, the chorus of "ennullyey ennulley", 'yEdho mogam', "rasaathi enusiru" and "en iniya pon nilaavey" are the most appealing.
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sun May 16 15:37:28 EDT 1999
  
  typo: are..egs
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ 98cfc56d.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun May 16 16:43:59 EDT 1999
  
  
  Note : For those who don't know me, I am a fan of
  IR, ARR, MSV, AMR everyone. I make no comparisions.
  I just appreciate the best of all MD in TFM.
  
  Creativity of ARR in Kaadhalar Dhinam.
  
  1. The second interlude that comes in the rOja rOja song with chirping sounds of birds and
  the honey bee sound is very creative. The honey
  bee sound is exactly replicated as it sounds
  in the nature ... the tune/sound fits perfectly
  into the interlude.
  
  2. In the song Enna vilai azhagaE the pause
  for a beat after the wordings Oru mozhi illaamal
  really makes one feel that he is running out of
  words to describe her beauty .... fits very well
  for the tune, music and the pace of the song.
  
  3. Use of phone ringing, logging in to Internet,
  is creative .... new sounds .... to give fresh
  music something different from the usual one
  has to be creative and ARR has done it.
  The special effects sound processor that ARR
  has used for creating some of the music for
  Oh Maria Maria is appreciable.
  
  
• From: picku(ifthikar ali) (@ ) on: Thu Jan 11 10:45:21 EST 2001
  
  hi
  Iam picku from kerala..
  What's there to talk abiut the creativity of arr??
  He is X-traordinary..simply superb...
  I love his creativity and music for Iam on his way..
  http://www.ifthi.bizland.com
  
  

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