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Is IR comparable to Great Western Classical Musicians in Terms of Music Complexity and Quality ?

Topic started by siva (@ makom.fkm.utm.my) on Wed Jun 3 03:56:28 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

IR is long known to be a great composer.But how far does he differ or on par with great western classical composers like Bach,Betthoven and Mozart....?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Jun 4 23:51:49 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  I enjoyed the discussions. My view points in this topic are here.
  
  * First of all we can not compare the composers from different centuries. Because their compositions are motivated by different factors. For example, we can not bring St. Thyagayaja into picture because his motivation was to attain mukthi. Also i will give more weightage to his Bhakthi and lyrics than his compositions in a particular rAgA. He did not bother about raga for the mind set of the situation.
  
  Similarly we can not compare IR with Mozart or Bach, since they composed music for the audience in that period of time.
  
  So for the given type of audience, if we compare the ingenuity, creativity, IR defintely stands on par with any other admirable composers in terms of complexity.
  
  Here complexity refers to whatever possible intricacy that can be provided in the music for the given audience. It is because of the audience and the lack of advertisement that IR is not known for rest of the world.
  
  IR said he is not bound by the rulee. He proved that by crossing the theoretical lines of music in many songs yet made them attractive. The factors that we can consider are (1) Creativity in melody,
  (2) orchestration and (3) Supporting/expanding the theme further. Beyond these factors IR has added advantage of fitting that to the situation for a film. I don't think anybody else used
  rAgA's of "sad mind sets" to Happy situation and yet made sense out of it.
  
  We need to really compare IR's
  BGMs with other composers music hence eliminating the effects of singing and lyrics. I am sure everybody will agree that IR's BGM are mind blowing ones. I could not resist quoting these examples. 1) In "Punnagai Mannan" when Kamal wants to tell Revathi that he has fallen in love with her. The Piano+music tells everything there.
  
  2) The BGM in the climax scene of "Kadalukku
  mariyAdhai" is substituted for dialogues.
  
  3) The prelude music in "Aruna Kirana" song in
  Guru, expressed more joy than the actors can do
  with a 70 mm film.
  
  Keep the healthy discussion going.
  
  anbudan
  mannAru
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ sf-dnpqh-127.compuserve.net) on: Fri Jun 5 17:22:02 EDT 1998
  
  To Anand Mahadevan :
  Your anatomy of Raja's guitar virtuoso was damn interesting. FYI, Raja was probably one of the kind who can just change hands from left to right and vice versa while playing the guitar. As a student of guitar may be you can figure out how complex it is. I would like you to dissect one more song of Raja's, namely " Kanna Kanna nee Yengae..." from the film "Meendum Kokila".
  It has excellent interludes in guitar, which you may love. Just get to me back once you have studied the song. Bye.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Sat Jun 6 19:15:26 EDT 1998
  
  Ravi
  
  You are right about the guitar interludes of IR. There are so many IR songs with really characteristic guitar pieces. One of the finest of Raja's is in the song 'Kuliru Aaddunnu Manathu' in the malayalam film Olangal. I think IR gives out some of the really tough ones in MFM. Also, hear the interlude in the song 'Pani Vizhum Poon Nilavil' in the film Ilamai Kkolam and 'Hey, Hey Orayiram in Meendum Kokila again!
  
  However, the best guitar instrumental I have heard in any song came from Salil Chowhdury in the song ' Kurumozhi Mulla Poove' (Malayalam). Why I bring this up is, Sankaran is one of the threads had mentioned that IR played the Guitar for Salil. So, was this played by IR? This song came in 1974 and it is possible that IR played this complicated but easily the most melodius tune I have heard for the guitar.
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ sf-dnpqc-093.compuserve.net) on: Sat Jun 6 23:56:42 EDT 1998
  
  HI nithin,
  Would you please mail me the names of all malayalam films for which Ilayaraja scored music. I have often heard many songs but dunno the name of the film. Also please do mail me the details of where i can get it in the U.S.
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Mon Jun 8 23:34:01 EDT 1998
  
  Hi, Ravi
  
  I am getting a consignment from home pretty soon. I had bought a complete collection of Raja's malayalam movies when in the Gulf 2 years back, I will definitely record and send you the names too.
  
  A few names are:
  
  Aalolam
  Dooram Arikey
  Olangal
  Nokkathe Doorathu Kannum Nattu.
  Kalinyoonjal
  Jackpot
  Hijack
  My Dear Kutti chathan (you should hear the KJY and chorus song, very different from the one in Tamil, both with out of the world interludes)
  Yatra
  Yatramozhi
  I understand Raja did about 25 Mallu movies.
  
  I am glad to hear of your request, sometimes I feel TFM is getting a little parochial. Raja is too much of a figure for only TFM to enjoy him. At the same time it will be good to see our Emperor in the proper perspective when viewed from a national and global scale.
  
  Do send me your address.
  
  
• From: dev mannemela (@ 131.107.3.75) on: Tue Jun 9 00:29:02 EDT 1998
  
  Some other Malayalam movies of Raja are:
  1) Anuraaga Kottam (1998)
  2) Anuswaram
  3) Atharvam
  4) Ente Sooryaputhrikku
  5) Guru
  6) Kaala Paani
  7) Kallukonnuru Ponnu
  8) Man of the match
  9) Samrajyam (no songs)
  10) Unuru
  
  
  AFAIK IR has done ~20 movies..
  
  dev
  
  
• From: k.r.avi (@ sf-dnpqj-062.compuserve.net) on: Tue Jun 9 18:41:09 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Nithin and Dev,
  Thanx a lot for the info. Many times i felt the language malayalam, Yesudas and Ilayarajas music was a deadly combination to hear some soulful music. I stilll remeber the haunting melodies of some films. By the way nithin i have mailed you my address. Thanx a lot.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Thu Jun 11 14:22:20 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Guys
  Have anyone tried to play the organ piece in Engeym Epodum in Ninai thale Inikum --- Very very complicated piece.. ( in 2nd BGM ..) (Played by Ben Surendar )
  
  In the song Pachi kili muthucharam in-- Ulagam strum valiban..there is an accordian piece which keeps on going up the fret.. Any one tried playing it..
  
  There are many complicated pieces done by MSV..I will try to do a Midi File...
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Thu Jun 11 23:13:23 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth
  
  What about MSV's 'Kann Ponna Pokkiley Kaal Pokalama', 'Happy, Indru Mudhal Happy', Pudiya Vaanam, Pudiya Bhoomi also had great accordion interludes.
  
  (We need to get a fab site for MSV.)
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 197.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Thu Jun 11 23:36:52 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Nithin ,
  Ya though I have site on Msv - I will have to compile a program exploring his bgms.
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks8d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 13:31:55 EDT 1998
  
  While on Western Music and IR, has anyone dissected IR's use of the Sax ? ARR too tried a gimmick with KG in 'Duet'. But I didn't find it half as authentic as IR's. Definitely IR is something special when it comes to Western Music. Of course, once we're done with the sax, we could start with the vioin, and then perhaps the flute, and we should forget his use of the High Hertz.
  
  
• From: venus (@ 131.san-francisco-08.ca.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Jun 13 12:03:19 EDT 1998
  
  cut & paste from NOTHING BUT WIND cover
  ---------------------------------------
  
  Another reason for his success and his endless stream of melody lies in his own approach to music. He has said "I have no parameters to restrict myself. Whatever comes to mind, I have
  no hesitation in doing...I have no bonds". A little less than two centuries earlier, Beethoven had said
  "Other men make rules. I break them."
  While Ilayaraaja does not claim to be Bethoven, in their thinking they are certainly kindered spirits
  
  Sleeve notes : Victor Rangel Ribeiro. A highly respected musicologist, he is the author of
  "A Brouque Music - A practical Guide to performers"
  Hope this adds some important point to the topic of the thread.
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Sun Jun 14 01:19:55 EDT 1998
  
  When Illaiyaraja starts thinking of breaking his bonds with Indian film music and starts for a change reviving his forays into other forms of musical creativity, including symphonies, I hope Mr. Ribeiro will not have any hesitation in declaring Illaiyaraja as claiming to be the one and only Illaiyaraja.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.11) on: Sun Jun 14 15:12:15 EDT 1998
  
  Dear MR.VENUS,
  
  It is "BAROQUE MUSIC" and not "BROQUE MUSIC" - this kind of music existed in the pre-Bachian days, when heavy violin (several of them)were used.Best example I can give is the BAROQUE KIND OF INTERLUDE IN THE SONG "Chinna kannan Azhaikkiraan", sung by S.Janaki, where the song beautifully teeters between BAROQUE MUSIC AND INDIAN CLASSICAL (REETI GOWLAI to be precise).
  
  
• From: Christa (@ net3-103.air.on.ca) on: Thu Jun 8 16:06:25 EDT 2000
  
  Can anyone tell me the difference between baroque and classical?
  
  
• From: Anand (@ erchg00x.nortelnetworks.com) on: Thu Jun 8 17:32:24 EDT 2000
  
  Have anyone noticed the song, Sundari KAnnal Oru Seedhi. The starting of the song , has some beautiful Violin orchestrations.
  
  
• From: gnani (@ m36.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jun 9 08:44:12 EDT 2000
  
  it is only a matter of time before IR transcends his glorly above all musicians of all time,simply because nothing has eluded him so far in music i can see people talking of him in future after our times as the greatest music composer who has dwelled in this earth so guys want to find a place in history feel the songs of IR and you would have lived your life.
  
  
• From: sarath (@ ) on: Fri Mar 16 10:29:26 EST 2001
  
  hi... every one . iam sarath. iam a great fan of IR. i really admired his scintillating compositions as a listner& a musician. hats off to IR. but unfortunately i dodnt know his complete work. i guess he had about 800-900 films. any of u might have all the list of those. do help me in getting all film names.
  
  with love sarath.contact me at:
  sarat07@hotmail.com
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.76.3.20) on: Fri Mar 16 10:47:12 EST 2001
  
  sarath
  pl. visit http://www.raajangahm.com/discography.html
  There is a complete list of Maestro's films.
  
  Kudos to RaajaNGAHM.
  
  
• From: vc (@ 210.214.178.149) on: Sun Mar 18 08:59:20 EST 2001
  
  This thread is the most interestingof all that I've seen in this forum.
  
  
• From: Mahalingam (@ 203.197.138.165) on: Sat Mar 24 08:04:31 EST 2001
  
  hi nithin
  
  could you send me ilayaraja's malayalam songs? i like this discussion.
  
  yours
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: rajesh s (@ ) on: Thu Dec 18 19:42:11 EST 2003
  
  I'm diehard of south indian music especially
  yesudas,illayaraja,devarajan, & in the present crop mohan sitara & vidyasagar. i'm really not getting any songs to listen at present if any one please respond to me with some good melody or just the songs form moonam pokkam.
  
  

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