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Why Tamil Film Music is WAY AHEAD of other Indian Film Music?

Topic started by ..raj (@ 203.200.197.65) on Wed Feb 18 06:42:07 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Be it IR, MSV, AR, YSR, or HJ..... Why Tamil Film music and composition is a way ahead of other Indian Film Music? Or I am feeling so since I am listening to them often?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: C~P (@ 61.95.159.16) on: Thu Mar 4 11:21:18 EST 2004
  
  "My point is simple : just acknowledge that he has a significant number of inspired songs including a few superhits(although he indeed has given many good original numbers which I have NOT denied) and move on."
  This happens with any MD for that matter as far as I know! Neways, I am "moving on"!! :-)
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 67.87.27.19) on: Thu Mar 4 11:21:32 EST 2004
  
  Vijay:
  
  Instigation happens all the time in heated discussions :-), only then does the discussion become interesting.
  
  As long as you are aware of RDB's good original numbers, good for you.
  
  `significant number of inspired songs including a few superhits' do you mean of the group of inspired songs?
  
  `I cannot deny his good original numbers' - if you do then the whole discussion is a waste of time.
  
  'move on' from what?
  
  Well my view is RDB has been maligned often for his copied songs in this forum. Hardcore-well we are discussing music arent we :-))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Mar 4 11:21:58 EST 2004
  
  C~P, thats fine :-) I have made my points and have also acknowleged the many original numbers that RDB has given. Ghar and Amar prem's songs are amongst my favourites. My stance on whis whole issue isnt exactly the same as HYPE if you noticed.Didnt mean to offend anyone here either.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Mar 4 11:30:28 EST 2004
  
  "Well my view is RDB has been maligned often for his copied songs in this forum"
  
  Raja m, RDB need not be branded as a copycat for he didnt have to rely on lifting to make a living. However, lets not brush off all his genuine inspirations which are higher than anyone else's as per reliable information in Karthik's site or call them "adaptations" and try to euphemize it. Which is what AV was trying to do.
  As much as you think he has been maligned in this forum, I think RDB has been a bit(not a whole lot) overrated in magazines and elsewhere and several great composers before him havent gotten the same amount of press and recognition. Thats part of the reason for me mentioning about his inspirations. I guess it had to do with his Asha Bhonsle remixes selling well and his late success with 1942- A love story which made people forget about say Madan Mohan or Anil Biswas orother great composers of the 50s/60s.
  
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 67.87.27.19) on: Thu Mar 4 11:41:17 EST 2004
  
  Vijay:
  
  `Overated' -again is one's own opinion. Inspiration/copying, this number again depends on the listener's calculation of the numbers of original greats liked by the listener vs the copied songs liked by the listener.
  
  My opinion is I was thrilled to see Bheegi Bheegi raath (a remix by Leslie Lewis of Colonial Cousins), the song still sounds fresh, which speaks of RDB's creativity. I am thrilled to find RDB being rediscovered by HFM fans.
  
  You are absolutely right about Madan Mohan and MDs of that generation.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Mar 4 11:55:55 EST 2004
  
  "`Overated' -again is one's own opinion. Inspiration/copying, this number again depends on the listener's calculation of the numbers of original greats liked by the listener vs the copied songs liked by the listener.
  "
  
  raja m, true, which is why I based my argument on just the total number of inspired songs - which is not an opinion :-))) But I do agree somewhat with your other points.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Thu Mar 4 12:08:43 EST 2004
  
  "AV, I never made any statement that a particular MD was 10 times better than someone else and so on. Its something C~P extrapolated/invented himself and then passed it off as something I said. This is what is called putting words in someone else's mouth. Go back and read what I said earlier. "
  
  
  Vijay:
  
  The statement about IR, RDB and Ghantasala being 'X' times better than each other was to be taken in good humour. I have no intention in hurting you or anyone else at all. Let's ensure that the discussion doesn't cross the pale of pleasantness. If you felt hurt, I extend my apologies!
  
  You have also misinterpreted Mythila's point and my adjoiner to her observation. The point she and I made was actually IN FAVOUR OF SOUTH INDIAN MUSIC. Let me clarify this further: She basically said that South Indian MDs have studied and adapted North Indian forms of music. That is why songs based on Hindustani classical music can be found in South Indian films. MSV has composed Tamil ghazal albums. This has nothing to do with copying at all - it is the musical FORM (i.e. Hindustani khayal or ghazal) that we were talking about. Adi Narayan Rao used four Hindustani raagas to compose the raagamalika "Haayi Haayiga" in the Telugu film SuvarNa Sundari. The same song was re-used by him in the Hindi version of this film. Till date, it ranks as one of the finest raagamalikas ever in the annals of Hindi film music. On the other hand, Carnatic music has been very rarely used in Hindi films, because Hindi MDs rarely studied Carnatic music. I presented one exception: it was a link to a song composed by music maestro Anil Biswas. Another such example would be the use of Carnatic raagas in Marathi natyasangeet. Note that this again has nothing to do with the copying issue. Rather, it has something to do with awareness of musical forms in other regions of the country.
  
  So when I said "North Indian MDs rarely made use of South Indian music", I was referring to CARNATIC music. Yes, we all know that Anand Milind regularly lift Ilayaraaja's tunes.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Thu Mar 4 12:18:40 EST 2004
  
  However, lets not brush off all his genuine inspirations which are higher than anyone else's as per reliable information in Karthik's site or call them "adaptations" and try to euphemize it. Which is what AV was trying to do.
  =============================================
  
  Vijay: Now go and read the (yes, reliable!!!) comments made by Karthi S. He *himself* says that many of the inspired songs are excellent adaptations and cases of healthy inspiration or creativity. So now, what does this prove? :-)
  
  Yes, whenever there is a note-for-note lift, it has to be stated so. I agree with your observation about Mehbooba and Karthik S does as well.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Mar 4 12:49:41 EST 2004
  
  "Now go and read the (yes, reliable!!!) comments made by Karthi S. He *himself* says that many of the inspired songs are excellent adaptations "
  
  AV, he runs a site and has to be politically correct or toned down with his comments. He could be a big fan of RDB himself too, I dont know. Anyways , I just use the INFORMATION in his site,namely the song clips,and then find out for myself as to whether they are "adaptations" or lifts. Karthik's comments are his own opinions anyways. If Mehbooba is an "adaptation" according to you, then so are 99% of the songs listed in that site including Deva's :-)
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Thu Mar 4 13:33:58 EST 2004
  
  Guys,
  Good discussions so far.
  I don't think that RDB has been much maligned in this forum or any other indian music sites. I think, he is way overhyped and that his fans are always ready to justify his copying disease more than they do for others.
  I really don't see that adapting a foriegn song is a unique gift RDB alone possessed . Lot of other people had done that, and they also did a good job. So don't give that crap that he is special. Why he did that?. Exactly the same reason, why other copy cats are doing it.
  RDB has shown that he is talented, and still he is almost neck to neck with the guys like 'Anu malik' and others. Is there any explanation to that. So far no one has tried to give reasoning for that. In early 90's, before 1942 love story, the only song, he is remembered for in the whole decade, was 'Thumse Milke' from the movie parinda. The first few lines of the song 'Yaad aaghey re' in the movie love story(?), is clearly inspired from the song 'Yaar indha nilave'. In 80's RDB has few bonafide hits, and this song is one of them.
  There is no question that, he relied on inspired songs to stay in the market, not withstanding his other presumed original songs.
  Yes, he has given lot of semi-classical songs, which are good. But are they original?. Not long time back, both here in RMIM, most of the songs listed in the Karthik site has been considered as gems and original, but not any more. Who knows, may be in short time, some of the semi classical stuff might have been borrowed from his father's bengali songs, or some where else.
  Songs like 'Mehoboba' is still being considerd as masterpieces to the general public. How many of them know that is one of the best example for'as is' copying.
  This may happen to lot of other music directors, who is not part of this exclusive ( copying) club in the future. If it happens, I am not going to defend them like some of the people are doing it for RDB.
  This list has clearly peeled RDB's face mask and exposed his deficiences. I have personally seen lot of people opening up and openly acknowledging RDB copying disease recently. This is a good sign. But still there are few people hell bent on justitying this and I can not understand that.
  
  
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Thu Mar 4 14:16:06 EST 2004
  
  Vijay:
  "Mehbooba is an "adaptation" according to you"
  
  No, re-read by last post.
  
  "There is no question that, ****he relied on inspired songs to stay in the market*****, not withstanding his other presumed original songs.
  Yes, he has given lot of semi-classical songs, which are good. ****But are they original?**** Who knows, may be in short time, some of the semi classical stuff might have been borrowed from his father's bengali songs, or some where else. "
  
  
  One Hindi sentence to summarize the above:
  "Meri murgi ki ek hi taang" :-)
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Thu Mar 4 14:37:15 EST 2004
  
  AV,
  That exactly defines your stand, not mine!.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Thu Mar 4 15:23:03 EST 2004
  
  the only song, he is remembered for in the whole decade, was 'Thumse Milke' from the movie parinda
  ===========================================
  
  Come on, you cannot be serious! That is why I used that Hindi kahaavat.
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Thu Mar 4 15:33:06 EST 2004
  
  AV,
  I said - *** In early 90's, before 1942 love story, the only song, he is remembered for in the whole decade, was 'Thumse Milke' from the movie parinda***.
  If you are quoting my words, please quote it completely.
  Now what is wrong with that statement. Which movie or song of RDB, you think apart from '1942 love story' and this parinda song, made any flashes in 90's. Please enlighten me!.
  
  

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