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CounterPoint

Topic started by Srikanth (@ 207.122.201.68) on Tue Aug 25 13:42:31 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

What is so Great about Counter pointing ?

My Best counterpoint TFM composers
1 MSV.
2 IR.
3 Karthick Raja.
4 SG.

Shall we discuss , (taking one song at a time).

Srikanth.D

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raju (@ pccrnt069.lgu.ac.uk) on: Wed Dec 16 10:30:35 EST 1998
  
  I hv'nt got ne of d songs mensioned. It might b easy if u gave me an English tune that has 'counter points' & then I can try & work it out what it means.
  
  
• From: diva gilmour (@ ) on: Fri Apr 18 01:02:58 EDT 2003
  
  COUNTERPOINT conceptually originated in the western classical music.
  THERE is nothing big about counterpoint apart from the technical jargon associated with it. Precisely, if you were to make good music especially film based songs where you typically use several instruments to play different melodies or complimentary melodies you basically use counterpoint in one form or another. Does counterpoint add to the beauty of the music? YES! Will an average listener pay atention to it....not necessarily. So the bottom line it is highly an intellectual ornamentation of music.
  For more on counterpoint chek out
  
  http://www.bachfaq.org/ctpt.html
  
  
  for more info chek out the book
  COUNTERPOINT: FUndamentals of music making by Markand thakar at AMAZON.com
  
  or for more questions and sample music pieces that explains POINT-COUNTERPOINT or any musical concept or RAAGA for that matter
  shoot me an email at diva_gilmour@yahoo.com
  
  
• From: diva gilmour (@ 68.106.96.22) on: Fri Apr 18 01:09:12 EDT 2003
  
  forgot to mention
  
  a good site for people who wish learn FUNDAMENTALS OF MUSIC
  http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory33.htm
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Mon Apr 21 13:54:37 EDT 2003
  
  Counterpoint makes sense in relation to the music concerned. Rock/Pop has interesting using of vocal and instrumental counterpoint in the works of America (Sandman); Simon and Garfunkel and the inimatable Crsoby, Stills, Nash, and Young - four perfectly matched voices each of whom could lead or follow or solo with ease. In Indian music the melody is the thing - mettin azhuttam is most important. So does counterpoint really have a role? If MDs haven't used it - it is not for a lack of knowledge of the technique. As with everything else MSV's use of it is firmly within the melodic structure. IR's use of it was an expression of his strong desire to break free of the shckles imposed by melody and his earlier opinion of Indian classical music falling between the two stools of robust folk music and the formal Western music - Indian classical music lacked in his opinion (years ago he said this) the gut level feel of folk and the lofty aesthetic of Western music. Very true until you start listening to REALLY good musicians - not the attu mandai that sings at Tyagaraja aradhanai or the 75% that sings at Music Academy every December. For me Patrick Galway on the flute is insipid compared to Chaurasia or Pannalal Ghosh (father of the modern Indian classical flute). The best Western violonists can't help but sound like cats fighting! Sorry my opinion. I have been listening to Dhrupad (Dagar brothers) and Ragam, Thanam, Pallavi (a dying art) sets on the CD. It is incredible. Ramnad Krishnan must have been awesome on RTP. IR despite all the fabulous innovations he has given us can't help coming across as too smart or clever by half. To deliver something to an audience who is still only going to hum the main melodic line seems a bit too much! But IR can't be accused of the lack of trying. For close to 15 years he was virtually the only MD in Tamil and accounted for about 1/4 of the rest of the South. Even he must have found the uninterupted run a bit of a bore. Could IR have slowly opted out of the FM scene and used the time to conquer higher peaks? We can't say. The choices and circumstances were uniquely his. But the opportunities he had were his too. IR should have been composing big time international film music by now. We will never know why he almost consciously kept away from it. India's gain during those 15 years is the world's loss.
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Mon Apr 21 17:41:43 EDT 2003
  
  I like MSV's early 70's stylish numbers like 1. Pennulagil minnum sindum punnagaiyenna - Rickshawkaran
  2. Love is fine darling - thavapudalvan
  3. Indru vanda enda mayakkam , Aval yen sirithaal - from Kaase thaan kadavulada
  4.Manamedai-from Gyaanaoli
  5. Malar edu en kangal from AVEOManam.
  6. Sorgam pakkathil, naan thananthani kaatu raaja - from enga maama
  Any usage of cps in these songs???Have these been inspired by RDBurman's style during the same period?Iam just curious.
  Late 70's MSV changed his style.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Apr 23 16:51:39 EDT 2003
  
  Pennathur, I am happy to see somebody who is looking at our music directors with a broader perspective, like I do (or want to). Re: IR - I dont think he would have been successful with more full-blown indian-western fusions. As you have rightly observed, tune/melody, is the focus of indian music. Most people are trained/used to appreciate only this and nuances in it. Chords, is something, not many people are aware of or appreciate it. These are alien to our culture, similarly, other special aspects of western classical, like counterpoint, will surely, go unnoticed with our audience (and I am pretty sure it does). Recently, IR has been making valiant efforts to bring full-fledged orchestration to melodies (like in enna solli paaduvathO in en mana vaanil). I am not sure how well these songs have been received in TN.
  BTW, I feel a strong influence of Simon and Garfunkel in IRs music, I mean, classical rock, especially the usage of strings. Right now, IR has taken strings usage to a new level in songs (like the song mentioned previously).
  So in a nutshell, I dont regret IR doing film songs all this time.
  
  

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