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Vaazhga Nee Emmaan !

Topic started by Neel D (@ 24.99.73.50) on Tue Jul 29 00:54:38 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://tamil.cinesouth.com/masala/hotnews/29072003-1.shtml

;-)

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Responses:

• From: Venky (@ 217.44.99.207) on: Tue Jul 29 02:36:49 EDT 2003
  
  I ahve the utmost respect for IR for stating this. In a time when we are being bombarded with poor pronounciation, at least somebody with real Thamizh pattru is mainting the standard.
  ARR is the biggest criminal in this matter. Just in his last release he has introduced Adnan Sami who can't pronounce a single tamil word properly.
  
  
• From: Mythila (@ 208.220.245.72) on: Tue Jul 29 03:59:16 EDT 2003
  
  IR must take the responsibility of this sad state of affairs . He was the one who paved way for NI singers entering TFM (LM,AB,SS). Why? His own daughter Bhava pronounces Kozhi as Koli.
  
  
• From: sudhir (@ 203.94.218.67) on: Tue Jul 29 04:09:39 EDT 2003
  
  y IR likes only NI Female singers(lata mangeshkar,asha bhonsle, shreya ghosal, sadhana sargam) and not male singers... wat kind of hypocrite is he??????? hey cut all this tamil crap man... enjoy good music... music has no language...... even IR cannot understand this????
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.204) on: Tue Jul 29 04:18:07 EDT 2003
  
  SUdhir ,Mythila ,
  
  IR is not aginst Udit as such .His kannada prononuciation is better and that is why he has used him in kannada ...
  
  ALso Lata Mangeshwar ,Asha Bhonsle ,Shreya Ghoshal have great voice and not so bad pronounication.SOmewhere you need a comprmise !!!
  
  On the other other hand ,SUkhwindra and Udit,Adana Saami have extrenmely bad pronounication !!!Adnan Sammi is exteremly horrible .That song from BOYS is good but for Adnan Sami's voice !!!!!
  
  SUdhir ,music has no langauge is too generic !!Then why do you have so many songs with lyrics ,u can have just music alone na ???
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.204) on: Tue Jul 29 04:22:18 EDT 2003
  
  Mythila ,
  COmpare these songs and tell which one of them is more clear ( i am referring only to north Indian singers )
  
  1.Kadhalikum pothu ( kadhalaan) by Udit and Vennilave from Minsara kanavu
  
  2.Nee thungum Neertahil from manasellam and Kadhal Pisase from RUN
  
  3.BOOm BOOM (Adnan Saami) from BOyz and the same BOOM BOM ( sadhana ) from BOYZ..
  
  4.CBI ENge from Povellam kettupaar and CHudithaar anithe from the same movie .
  
  But it will be better that NI singers learn a bit of tamil ..Our singers take os much care when they go to hindi .....Janaki amma ,susheela though not tamilians learnt tamil for singing !!!
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 161.114.64.71) on: Tue Jul 29 05:15:52 EDT 2003
  
  Mythila :( the LM/AB songs for IR(Satya, EO Paatukaran, Meera) were definitely 100000000 times better than the NI singers' songs for other MDs in the 90s!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Jul 29 09:33:51 EDT 2003
  
  Could somebody please translate or transliterate the article on/by IR? I am unable to read the piece (that wretched font problem still persists.) I'd be grateful if somebody could help me out here. What does IR say? And what's with the sudden tamizh pattru?? Thanks.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Jul 29 23:14:49 EDT 2003
  
  Even my Lord Labakkudas lets me down! :-(
  Where are all the IR fans when I request a favour? :-)
  
  
• From: Venky (@ 217.44.94.250) on: Wed Jul 30 02:59:52 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, wait for a couple of days, the article will be translated to English on the site itself.
  
  
• From: Cinema Virumbi (@ 203.197.220.195) on: Wed Jul 30 09:11:23 EDT 2003
  
  
  Naaz,
  
  I just tried my hand at translation! ('Dina Thanthi' style extra !!!!'s are of course mine!!!!)
  
  IR who doesn’t use Udit Narayan!!
  Singers should sing Tamil clearly!!
  
  No one can beat UN in chewing and spitting Tamil songs. But, TFM MD’s are in the habit of bringing him from Mumbai for his captivating (vaseegaram=enchanting??) voice.
  
  However, on careful observation, you will notice one thing. So far, UN has never sung in IR’s music! (It is another matter that he has sung in his sons’ music(s??))
  
  IR who has special concern for Tamil and Tamil pronunciation, takes that extra care to ensure that Tamil is properly understood in his songs. It is precisely because of this that he used SPB extensively in his songs.
  
  Though many directors suggest to him “ Sir, Let us make UN sing (in our film)”, he politely refuses saying “ Good Tamil singers are available with us. Moreover, there are a large number of other language people who sing Tamil beautifully. Does he have the magnetism that these people don’t have in their voices?”
  
  Well, now, you may be wondering if IR is composing for any big film right now! Kamal’s ‘Sandiyar’ (Kamal, when is the change in the name??) and Faasil’s new TF are the only two big projects that have reached IR.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Wed Jul 30 10:15:25 EDT 2003
  
  CV -
  
  Thanks to you, I am seeing the title of this thread in a whole new light!
  
  Three words: O The IRony! (you can choose to say this in the "Kadhale Po Po" vein, but that's up to you :-)
  
  
• From: Cinema Virumbi (@ 203.197.220.195) on: Thu Jul 31 06:09:56 EDT 2003
  
  
  Naaz and Neel D,
  
  Since murdering Tamil by some singers is a topic of interest to all three of us, here's one example:
  
  Recently I listened to, with all possible attention, the song ' KalyaaNath thEn nilaa, Kaaychchaatha paal nilaa' from 'Mounam Sammadham' (Mammootty, Amala- KJY & KS Chitra) .
  
  Somewhere in the middle, KSC sings 'aaychchaatha paal nilaa'!!!! idhai engE solli azhuvathu??!!!
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.204) on: Thu Jul 31 07:08:57 EDT 2003
  
  Cinema Virumbhi ,
  
  In sangeetha Megam song SPB sings " uLLam Yennum OOraile " instead of Urilae !!!
  
  These are small mistakes which great singers do !!I don't think they are greta mistakes !!!Also those osngs were recorded liv ,with orchestras and hence Illayraaja would'nt have insisted to sing the song agin as getting the orchestration again is very difficult !!!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Thu Jul 31 11:33:20 EDT 2003
  
  CV -
  
  I have not heard that song, and so I can't offer a proper rejoinder. All I can is that for those who value the sanctity of language (this is not to exclude the necessary evolution of speech/expression) will not excuse or overlook these glitches. Let's not forget: Playback singers are paid to sing. They are not doing anybody a favour, and only the listening public can accept or reject them. Of course, criteria - such as pronunciation, nuance, expression etc vary from ear to ear and some ears tuned finer than others.
  
  Of course, to focus on details also leaves one open to the charge of "conservative" tastes. But here's what completely zonks me: In the last decade there has been great coverage on issues of preservation/conservation of the environment, energy sources, global warming, the urgent need for curtailing industrial emissions, - all proposed and propogated with only one greater common good in mind: The future generation.
  
  Why then is language - which is the heart and soul of culture - treated with such disregard, contempt, and flippancy? The word "conservative" used in this context takes on a negativity of gargantuan proportions.
  
  My suggestion to you: Azhugai Vaendam. Siriyungal!
  It's a weapon unlike any other.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.208) on: Thu Jul 31 12:46:59 EDT 2003
  
  hey mannn wat's wrong with u guys... english has inculcated words like "jungle,guru,pandit,pandal,pukka and so many other words from various languauges...... dunt u think Win-xp is the best operating sys. till now as it offers better interfacing with various applications, in the same way Tamil should offer interfacing facilities(adding eng. words and linient pronounciation) for better reception outside TN.... think forward co-tamils...
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Thu Jul 31 13:22:38 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy!!
  There are certain things people are proud of. For ex Americans are proud of their freedom
  Brazil are proud for their soccer teams.
  Tamilians are proud of their language, coz it is not dervied from any other language for one reason.. I hope though you vada-mozhi chorkal and other vada-mozhi varthaikal, it is OK to be pure and fight for purity.. There are sometimes i feel it will be too much tamil to express coloquial stuff.. where you can barge in expressions from other languages. ex: Spoon, how many people say 'carandi', 'Plate' and 'Thattu'
  AND FOR THE MATTER OF FACT win-xp has one of the good user-interfaces and not the best OS.. there are better OS by functionality...
  Am i starting a MICROSOFT-ANTI MICROSOFT war here.. no surely not.. I use Win-XP in my daily work!! too.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.91) on: Thu Jul 31 22:33:49 EDT 2003
  
  agreed musicislife....but movies are just commercial aspect of Tamil culture.... selvaraghavan and other directors are spoiling it by showing "Kaama unarchigal" and ARR is spoiling it by using Northindian singers.. fair isn't it?
  
  ppl. dunt start a windows-linux war here ,i just mentioned XP for a example....i'm tired of linux-supporters...
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Fri Aug 1 11:01:23 EDT 2003
  
  Music4Life -
  
  There is this assumption (easily debunked) that commercial music or commercial culture cannot be "commercial" in the true sense if there is an adherence to detail, ethos, and nuance. Will a song / composition suffer if all these three were present and the song was still bee-bop tune? Wouldn't it be appealing, more so because the flavour and richness of the language and its utterance was retained, without compromise?
  The question to ask is this: Why do we think that commercial appeal and attention to cultural specificities are mutually exclusive or incompatible?
  
  Moving into the future does not have to mean that we have to leave our culture and language behind.
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Fri Aug 1 11:04:11 EDT 2003
  
  The above post is for MusicIsLife. Sorry for the typo in the address.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Aug 1 14:30:22 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz,
  Probably you did not understand what i just said. It is peoples opinion to be proud about something, i do understand the commercial-ness behind everything, then what is the use of culture and people who want to stick to culture..
  Listen to Parthiban kanavu, those songs are also good, commercially successful.
  We want to live in a dream, a land of imagined utopia, but the reality is totally different. Moving into the future surely does not mean to leave the culture, but how do you protect it, becomes the question.
  Though i do support usefulness in coloquial sense, when it comes to literary medium, it does become debatable.
  So what is literary, and what is commercial kind-of becomes a thin line.
  Hope you understand this.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Fri Aug 1 17:20:51 EDT 2003
  
  MusicIsLife -
  
  I did not misread your post. I actually found it to be quite insightful and encouraging.
  
  Does commercial music have to be devoid of culture, art and excellence? I don't think so. It can only be better if it sticks to a high standard of both product and delivery.
  
  The thin line that divides literariness and commerical "pop-art" can be traversed if the latter strives for the aesthetic integrity of the former. And there are many cases of this happening in TFM just a decade and a half ago.
  
  When one approaches something with a mandate of "protectionism" one also leaves the door open for "exclusivity." My point is not anti-influence or linguistic rigidity. Rather, I'd say, it is about absorbing in a manner that "enriches" the mother culture / art. But most TFM these days is what I'd term "aspirational mimicry" of the worst kind.
  
  Ultimately, a culture is a reflection of its people. And it is the regard that people have for their heritage (respect untainted by misplaced nationalism/regionalism) that ensures its longevity.
  Some may call it Perumai. I'd choose Nesam.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Aug 1 18:31:07 EDT 2003
  
  It is a Catch-22 situation. So which side do you go about, eventually the timing of anything will be the course of action.
  The problem now happening, it is exaggeration and over commercialization and people succumbing to so called international pressures.
  Art in any form is such a sketchy thing, but if seriously pondered over it, what makes anything very much identifiable as soon as it is presented in any form of our 5-senses, is what we have grown up with. Sometimes the liking habit also seriously affects, sometimes we do like other stuff and want that to be included in our lives, but what gives peace, a sense of fulfilment, a sense of difference is what you called "Nesam"
  And i agree to that. By generalization we surely loose some kind of identity, some people call it innovation, some people curb it as non-ethical so it all depends how people are attached closely to the factor of Music.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ 172.154.219.93) on: Sat Aug 2 15:36:02 EDT 2003
  
  Why couldn't have ARR used Shankar Mahadevan for "Boom Boom"? Was he busy MDing with SEL?
  
  

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