Review Of Old Songs

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Review Of Old Songs Review Of Old Songs

Topic started by SL (@ 208.49.174.119) on Mon Oct 2 18:43:44 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Let this thread serve as a platform for reviewing old songs that have not been elaborated upon except while discussing the creativity of its creators. Please use this thread to review old songs, album by album.

Responses:

Old responses
From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Wed Oct 25 14:47:02 EDT 2000

A good composition alternates high energy with
low energy (just like breathing alternates
build and release) and it nowhere more evident than this song.
The intro you can see : high/low.
Pallavi low Anupallavi high
interlude high/low
charanam: low/high/low.
From: ^^ (@ 199.43.48.23) on: Wed Oct 25 14:54:13 EDT 2000

indha oru thread thaan padikira maadhiri irundhadhu:((((( ippa???
From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Wed Oct 25 15:15:42 EDT 2000

thanks for sharing the honest opinion ^^.
your pal,
rjay
From: jdd (@ 63.108.172.129) on: Wed Oct 25 15:19:52 EDT 2000

great job guys! lot of nice-to-know info
another "sangathi" example (may be, initiated by SPB)
- Panivizhum malarvanam (N.Nithya)
"unpaarvai oru varam" is done with variety
From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Wed Oct 25 15:53:40 EDT 2000

jdd,

a small addendum. variation technically is "written" by the composer (in panivizuhm malarvanam, ini varum munivarum and irubadhu nilavugaL are variations) whereas sangathis would be more spontaneous, improvisational. as far as i know, ir didn't allow spb to "put in" any sangathis in this song. the two different ways spb sings (one flat one goes like ma pa ma ga or something like that and other one where he goes to the mEl sA and "flows down") un pArvai oru varam were probably composed. (btw, this is a good song to see how ir composes :-) )
From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 63.39.5.138) on: Wed Oct 25 16:01:44 EDT 2000

RJAY,Srikanth,

Super thread.
From: jdd (@ 63.108.172.129) on: Wed Oct 25 16:25:27 EDT 2000

aruLaracan:
some of the prev postings say that IR is not used to the "Sangathis" as he's from western; and, many times, it is due to SPB etc
From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 25 16:35:19 EDT 2000

arul,
composer can also gives those spontaneous, improvisational,
msv is known for it.
at times people have told me he stops a running take and gives a better variation.

msv also does not permit the singer to go as they like, not only singers i know for sure even instrumentalists were also not permitted.

rjay get back to analysis!
(^^...our friend from ml..does not like discussing technical stuff.)
From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Wed Oct 25 17:24:37 EDT 2000

jdd

IR not composing sangathees and SPB making them
up are all our guesses, We may be totally wrong.
In fact, I have seen SPB on stage sometimes
overimprovise and spoil the flow of good melodies.
What we mentioned was a general trend and not an
unbroken rule.

fan

^^ himself has written beautiful analysis of some IR gems long back and I have had the fortune of discussing
some Raja hits with him during a personal visit.
He likes analysis. I respect him a lot and with his comment, I felt
shy of talking too much in this forum. (I can understand his point of view, even I am feeling the same: first ARR thread, then IR thread, then here... after a time,
all threads read alike, same viewpoints and
mechanical explanations...)

I will
slow down a bit, but will try to complete
the analysis on hand.

Thanks
rjay
From: SL (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Wed Oct 25 18:47:37 EDT 2000

Srikanth,rjay great contributions!!! Learnt a lot.As rjay stated, MSV started off as a Carnatic singer and therefore incorporates a lot of sangathis in his compositions and prefers that the singers put them accross as taught/composed by him. This penchant of his, really shows up in songs with lyrics set to short santhams like 'kaNNukku kulam Ethu' from Karnan. This is a santha kavithai by Kannadasan and MSV relies on variations/sangathis to weave out a wholesome melody. There are instances where a single word gets stretched accross a few bars with brighas and each time differently. It is a pahadi classic!!!

Srikanth, there are quite a few songs with different melody lines for the male and female singer. A few examples :-
Chandrodayam oru peNNanathO (chandrodayam)
Naan unnaichErntha selvam (kalai koyil)
ChinnavaLai mugam sivanthavaLai (puthiya boomi)
Madana MaaLigayil (rajapart rangathurai)
EngirunthO aasaigaL (chandrodayam)
Sirippi UNdaagum raagaththilE (engirunthO vanthaaL)

This sangathi feature came through in PBS-PS duets like Yaar yaar yaar avar YaarO (pasa malar) and odivathu pOl idai irukkum (idayaththil nee). In the former, the word 'yaaro' is played around with by both singers to such an extent that you long to hear it being rendered in a normal/plain fashion. In the latter, the word nadakkattumE is the 'victim'.

rjay, Srikanth please do not leave out other numbers in 'Sivantha MaNN' and check out 'Kaviyaththalaivi' also. Sometime later, we should cover 'Kalai Koyil' which has Carnatica as well as Jazz numbers.
From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Wed Oct 25 19:01:42 EDT 2000

rjay, Srikanth, SL and others:

indha thread-il niRaya sangathigaL irukku. :-))
A chance for folks like me to learn some technical stuff.
Please continue.

SL:

It would be nice if, hereafter, we take one song
at a time for analysis instead of a whole album.
What do you think?
From: SL (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Wed Oct 25 20:05:12 EDT 2000

rjay, 'Hoton pE aisi baath' from 'Jewel Thief' is also a 'climax' song but more Indian folkish than Middle Eastern, emphasized by use of folkish percussion instruments and typical spurts of violin & flute. Has shades of Ahir Bhairavi/Chakravagam in the anupallavi.
From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Thu Oct 26 18:18:06 EDT 2000

fantastic discussions... but i do wish I had a collection of these old songs to listen to... Can anybody tell me if these hmv collections of MSV-TKR are good?

btw, Aayiram Nilavae vaa...(SPB's first song?) - each charanam is unique and really fantastic. Are the raagas themselves different from charanam to charanam?

I think the use of different charanams is really really rare in TFM in the last so may years - I cant remember any Raaja songs... any thoughts on this?
From: G.Ragavan (@ 61.1.214.203) on: Fri Oct 27 09:14:00 EDT 2000

Please don't digress too much.
Avoid this thread for above discussions.
This thread is strictly for review of old song.
That is also happening in one by one fashion.
SL is doing that properly.
Don't divert from the topic.
Thank You.

SL. Better let us go for next movie for review to clean this thread.
From: G.Ragavan (@ 61.1.214.131) on: Sat Oct 28 13:22:29 EDT 2000

SL why don't we select "Urimaik Kural" as next movie?
Can you please find the songs?
From: RV (@ 24.12.35.27) on: Mon Oct 30 01:09:31 EST 2000

Songs in Urimaik Kural
1. Netthu Pootthale Rosa Mottu
2. Ponna Porandha Aambalai Kitte
3. Vizhiye Kadhai Ezhudu
4. Aambalaningala Neenga Aambalaingala
5. Kalyana Valai Osai Kondu

Except for 3 and 5, the other songs are junk.
From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.150.58) on: Mon Oct 30 03:39:24 EST 2000

No RV. The only junk song is "ampalaingkala neengka".

you missed two more good songs.
6. Oru thaai vayitri pirandtha
7. Maatikittaradi mayilak kaallai

SL or anybody Can you please get the RA songs?
From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Mon Oct 30 04:12:28 EST 2000

GR:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/ppp/kalyaanavalaiyosai.ram
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/ppp/vizhie.ram
From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.150.58) on: Mon Oct 30 07:49:01 EST 2000

I feel the best song in Urimaik Kural is "Kalyaana Vallaiyosai Kondu".
Very Good Village folk.

Indthap Paatil Kavngar pukundthu villaiyaadi irukirar.
Eppidi Vendumaanum porul eduthuk kollalam. Aanal Ilai marai kaayaka.
Vayil uzukinra kannavanukuch choru kondu pookiral oruthi. aval paadukiral.

Pai virika punnai maramiruka
vaai rusika alli naan kudukka
kaiyodu nei vaziya kannodu mai vaziya

chaapatu raamarkalluku ithu verum mathiyach chaapadu maathirithaan therium.

aval varuvathai avan tholaivil irundthey paarthuvidukiran.
Ethir paatup paadukiran.

Yer Pidika Kaikal Idai pidika
neer vayal pool nenjcham nekizndthiruka
ponnana nel mannikal kanne un pon mannikal
thaneerile chevaazai pol thaavich chirikaathooo

Itharkup porul ennaik ketkaatheerkal.

Ithu mettukup paata? Paatuku metta enru kandu pidikave mudiyatha oru kalavi.
MSV allathu Vaale vandthuthaan villaka vendum.
From: STS (@ 38.28.19.22) on: Mon Oct 30 23:39:17 EST 2000

Hari,

You can listen and download golden old Tamil songs at http://www.vikadan.com (Select Golden Old Tamil songs)
From: sk (@ ) on: Sun Nov 19 00:58:29 EST 2000

Shall we discuss this great song by TKR..
vasantha kAlam varumO from 'maRakka mudiyumA'? I have put a real audio file at:

http://guppy.mpe.nus.edu.sg/~mpessk/vaskaalvar.ram
From: Ravy (@ 152.163.213.59) on: Sun Nov 19 17:12:50 EST 2000

SK,

Thanks for the link. I have been searching for this one for a long time. PS's voice is divine.
From: RR (@ 192.122.134.138) on: Sun Nov 19 21:37:49 EST 2000

SK: thanks a lot for this very rare song. This song is set predominantly in Valaji but for the deviation as in 'kuRai theerumo'. Hindustani experts, clarify pls :)
From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Sun Nov 19 23:06:21 EST 2000

Ravy:

I am glad you got this song finally!

RR:

All thanks should go to Kathiresan. He brought it
from India.
From: SL (@ 63.253.6.74) on: Mon Nov 20 03:29:58 EST 2000

SK, great song !!! Reminded me of 'Unnai YeNNi yennai maranthEn' from 'Ragasiya Police 115' set to Valaji.

RR, though the song sounds 'Valajeeish', the actual raaga is Vagadheeswari (34th mela). The deviation from Valaji (at the word 'kuRai' and at the concluding humming piece at the end of the stanzas) is the introduction of R3. It is a TKR masterpiece, but me thinks that the tempo could have been slowed down a bit to accentuate melancholy further. There is an overdose of tabla in the second stanza that seemed to somewhat smother the great melody with PS just about keeping pace with the beat!!! Despite all this, an immortal melody and a collector's item with PS going great guns.
From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.221) on: Mon Nov 20 22:54:25 EST 2000

Oh SK, SL!

Indhap pattai nalla anubavichu kEkkaNumnu bathroom-laam pOyittu vandhu, light-ai ellam (monitor utpada) off paNNittu, vegu aavalOda utkaarndha enakku EmaatramE! Nallaa theinju pOna record pOlarukku sk! Sriram, original ithanai vEgam kidaiyaadhu, ithanai "keech"-um kidaiyaadhu. I have the original in India at home which was recorded from radio, so I had it re-recorded when I came back last time, inga vandhu adha pOttu kEttaa, paavi, ippO kEttadhai vida vEgamaa record panni vechirukkaan...suseela-vai pidikkavE mudiyalai...Odaraanga...! pppchch... sila paadalgaLukkum namakkum raasiyE irukkaradhilla!
From: kk (@ 207.0.105.208) on: Mon Nov 20 23:49:23 EST 2000

What shop in India do you get songs like this recorded at? The shops I visted in chennai all have only 80s & more recent songs.
From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Tue Nov 21 01:44:20 EST 2000

karthi:

Frankly, it has been so many years since I last heard
the song, that I don't even remember what the
original speed is! Shall we try to make a wav
file and use cooledit to artificially bring down
the speed?

General Info for kk and Others:

There is one Mr. M. Alikhan at Vadapazhani, Madras,
who has an extensive collection of old songs. It
seems that he can find any song that you are looking
for. He can put the songs in CDs for you. He
charges Rs. 275 per CD. (One CD can hold about
18-20 songs).

His shop name and address:

C Trax (pazhaya pAdal pokkisham)
169 Arcot Road (Very near Ram Theatre)
Vadapazhani
Chennai 600 026

Ph: 4814969

I am told that it is better to ask him to make
one CD (say 20 songs) at a time.. otherwise he
will simply take his own time!
From: SL (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Tue Nov 21 14:23:39 EST 2000

Indhap pattai nalla anubavichu kEkkaNumnu bathroom-laam pOyittu vandhu...
Karthi...romba mukkiyam :)))
From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Tue Nov 21 20:18:58 EST 2000

Two sweet songs of P Suseela from 'kandhan karuNai'
that are worth discussing..

http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/ppp/kandhankarunai.ram
From: rajagopal (@ 203.199.228.152) on: Fri Nov 24 17:32:15 EST 2000

SoLLa SoLLa inikuthadaa Muruga & Manam padaithEn..are haunting melodies.The divinity of the characters and the bawas are superbly brought out by PS. Needless to mention the hummings and the endings in the word MURUGA.........Swarasthanagal marumpozhuthil ehtanai menmai, Ithuvallavo mellisai.kEtka kEtka inikuthada..
As for the second song Manam PadaithEn,one has to see the movie.Kaadhukum Kannukum virundhu.
From: sreedevi (@ ) on: Wed Nov 14 15:14:11 EST 2001

pl can you give the song "varayo thozhi" fro paasa malar"

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