Illayaraja discussion on an American Forum

[Oldposts]

I perfectly agree with that cho.......There's no way they will understand IR and tamil music.....well if it is understood by them, then it is a shame for us isn'it???is tamil so easy for them to understand???it shuldn't be.....ARR's recognition carries more weight in this context cos he is one indian who can give their type of music too......but,they can never give a annakili or dil se......

[Oldposts]

So Cho, are you saying that traditional Indian music is off-limits for Western non-Indians, and they can't possibly appreciate it?? Is that to say that Western people are that pathetic that they can be content with the junk that they term music and label real music junk? Come on guys!! Don't be so low-minded! Be more open to different musical cultures! This isn't the middle ages where each nation is almost strictly segregated from all the rest of the world; this is the twenty-first century, where people are actively associating with people of different ethnicities. (I'm also saying this to myself, strangely enough)


Well, I have faith that our music is not at all inferior in any way. If Western non-Indians call our music 'trash' and their rap, techno and heavy-metal 'music', then it's THEIR low-mindedness and stupidity.

[Oldposts]

Actually, if we're serious about introducing to those Westerners IR's music, they must first be introduced to IR's music that is like the music they're used to. In this way, they will gradually want to explore Indian music further. Guys, this is the way that it works, and as long as 'it' is our treasure, why not share it with the rest of the world? Why do we have to enjoy it all ourselves at the exclusion of the rest of the world??

It's just like, His Holiness A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami came to America to preach the message of Lord Sri Chaitanya. Some Westerners took well to his preaching and ISKCON, and others did not. But note that a number of them DID. The teachings of Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad-Bhagavatham are treasures of India, and yet some Westerners are taking well to it. So Cho, you are only referring to those Westerners who are full of themselves, puffed up with ethnocentrism.

[Oldposts]

As a westerner who *is* aware of Ilayaraja, I'm enjoying this discussion! : )

[Oldposts]

purv,

I think you missed the point that I tried to make. pl read it again where I said that we Indians can appreciate both indian and western music but they can't. In that I basically meant that we are open to diffent music culture. Did I anywhere imply that our music is inferior? Their clasical form of music is not junk and our's not junk either.. All I said was that only for those who know little bit of both forms or atleast have an open mind for music can appreciate an album like HTNI bcos HTNI is nothing but those forms together. And Most of IR's stuff has a touch of western classical with indian folk and carnatic form of music. Some of his songs are like mini katcheris... you know what I mean.

Westerners live in their own world for thousands of years.. (for most of the americans, they don't even know how it is like outside California You cannot preach IR's music to them... or make them listen to MSS's Meera bhajan... Yes, I am not referring to all the western people in general. In fact, I played IR's 'Eatho moham' and his violin piece from Raja parvai to some of my colleagues at work and they really enjoyed it and later I gave them IR's HTNI CD as gifts and told them to keep it as a treasure. Like you said, it maybe possible for some one with the calibre of Swami Bhaktivedanta to spread IR's music in their world. But is there anybody willing to do that job?

Music is very much tied to culture.. Leave alone world music and IR for now... First of all we can't even make our northies to appreciate our carnatic music over their hindustani music...and what can we say about film songs that are based on these 2 forms ? Even in this thread, ask how many people can appreciate 'Kalaivaaniye' from Sindhu bhairavi and 'Ennai enna seidhai' from Ivan?

[Oldposts]

tk2,
please feel free to participate and share your thoughts with us

[Oldposts]

Sorry Cho, I got a little carried away. To be honest, I wasn't even sure of what I was saying.

Anyway, spreading IR's music isn't half as important as AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's task was. So it doesn't really matter. I mean, that guy brought the treasure of *SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE* with him. Whereas if one were to spread IR's music, totally disregarding the talent of other Indian composers, then that would be promoting an ordinary man to the status of God, which would be blasphemous. All in all, I think I'll have to take back comparing IR to Lord Chaitanya.

Lastly, not all Western music is junk, no doubt. I can listen to some Rock (soft or hard), Country, Reggae or R&B without any complaints. I do respect the Western music culture, but as I said before, I got a little too passionate.


Regards,
purv

[Oldposts]

ROTFL ))

Nanbargale, idhu too much pa. John Williams site-ku poi IR best-nu poll vera vechuteengale!! ))
Yaaruppa andha Election Commissioner? I will send TN Seshan to you for tuition - so that he can conduct elections in Bihar/Kashmir.

The experience gained by 100 IR-ARR threads has not been wasted.

Hey, why cant the ARR fan who said "Mozart is the ARR of Europe" go there? It is my dream to see IR-ARR war on neutral venue(like India Pakistan in Sharjah)

[Oldposts]

hehehewalrus,ARR fans carry a bit more stuff between 2 ears...........hey guys here must note that IR is not even popular with our own countrymen..... so i think work shuld start here rite in India.........

[Oldposts]

Why all this hoopla about who is greater or which music is superior? No music greater than the other..If one likes a particular music or composer it is his greatest..not for everyone..Let people judge in their own interests and tastes and choose..Surely one may be anxious that many in the world are missing out some of the beautiful compositions of IR, but so be it..IR is my most favorite, but that does not give me qualifications to start comparing the great musicians..One would actually end up spoiling the name of IR or someother composer. One can compare the musical styles and skills but has to be careful not to imply that someone is superior to someone else...

Having said that, I think one can make great contribution to the forum like this if one expresses why he likes a particular form of music by lot of introsepction..What makes a particular form of music click to someone...the musical patterns..complexity of compositions..styles..romantic, inspirational, upbeat, devotional, spiritual, gloomy, despair etc.

I think one may have hard time justifying entirely that even Mozart is the greatest composer of WCM if you listen to all his predecessors like Hayden, Handel, Vivaldi, Rossini, Scarletti, Bach, Telemann etc. Mozart is considered the most prolific composer, but not the greatest..(I guess it depends on what is the meaning of "greatest"--most songs composed? yougest composer? most diverse compositions? longest living in history? However, Mozart is clearly prodigious, because of composing many at the youngest age and writing concertos, quartets and quintets, symphonies and operas pretty much with all kinds of insruments. So there is a distint sytle, melody and perkiness in Mozart that is clearly distinct from many composers. But many Baroque composers have created much more wonderful pieces of music.. Likewise, if you listen to Telemann, the 16th century composer, he is appropriately called the king of Baroque (as much as Bach may be thought of king of baroque, but this does much disservice to Bach and Vivaldi) beacuse of his extensive use of violin, oboe, horn and trumpets expressing the musical temperaments of classical era in mumerous concertos. Listening to Telemann's horn and trumpet concertos one could say he is the prolific composer using these instruments in that era. In US, classical stations are pleasantly rediscovering this composer (You are likely to listen to Telemann in seattle's classical radio station, King FM--also broadcast in internet--www.kingfm.org)in classical radio stations which are known to repeat the ubiquitous Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi etc.

BTW, if you listen to some of the Mozart symphonies, there is heavy influence of Hayden's symphonic style. People say Hayden is the King of Symphonies, because he composed well over 100 symphonies..and many other composers tended to imitate his style including Mozart. There may be some truth to this..listening to Hayden may make you feel indeed that he is the King os symphonies. This is probabably true, because he is said to have the most in numbers in terms of symphonies and have made a fortune licensing his music to be played all over Europe during his time. BTW, Mozart had reportedly called Hayden the King of Symphonies..and hence the adage continues to this day..

There are pieces of Dresden Concerti by Johann Heinichen that I think may blow even Mozart away in terms of muscical ingenuity and creativity..but just a few concertos..Many in WCM have not even heard of Heinichen..

Now, IR is perhaps the most prolific and most diverse composer, as much as MSV, that it is a blessing that has happened to TFM. Any prolific composer is bound to leave some crap, beacuse of experimentation and lack of time for a leisurely composition. There are numerous pieces of WCM that one would not even like to listen to, the second time.

I get as much fun listening to IR (selectively) as I listen to Telemann, Mozart, Bach etc. That does not mean that IR or others the greatest. I think the most humble thing one can state is that it is amazing that how IR can compose such beautifull songs (I am ignoring is crappy songs) with as much prolificity as some of the WCM composers and our own MSV. There is no need to agree or disagree with anyone else whether he is superior or inferior to anyone...Such things are excercises in futility and mars some productive discussions that people may want to share..

Let me not forget.. it is also a blessing that ARR has arrived..He is as much talented as MSV, IR..I do not think that there is any doubt.

Just my few cents..