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Thread: The Golden Era of Dr.IR and Dr.SPB - Part 2

  1. #1121
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    # 102. பாடல் - ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    திரைப்படம் - நினைவெல்லாம் நித்யா
    இசை - இளையராஜா
    பாடியவர்கள் - எஸ்.பி.பாலசுப்ரமணியம் & எஸ்.ஜானகி
    பாடல்வரிகள் -
    ஆண்டு - 1982

    ஆஆ ஆ ஆஆ
    ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    பொன்மேகம் நம் பந்தல்
    உன் கூந்தல் என் ஊஞ்சல்
    உன் வார்த்தை சங்கீதங்கள் ஹா ஆ

    ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    பொன்மேகம் நம் பந்தல்

    இலைகளில் காதல் கடிதம்
    வண்டு எழுதும் பூஞ்சோலை
    விரல்களில் மேனி முழுதும்
    இளமை வரையும் ஓர் கவிதை
    இலைகளில் காதல் கடிதம்
    வண்டு எழுதும் பூஞ்சோலை
    விரல்களில் மேனி முழுதும்
    இளமை வரையும் ஓர் கவிதை
    மௌனமே சம்மதம் என்று
    ம்ம்ம்
    தீண்டுதே மன்மத வண்டு

    மௌனமே சம்மதம் என்று
    தீண்டுதே மன்மத வண்டு
    பார்த்தாலே தள்ளாடும் பூச்செண்டு

    ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    பொன்மேகம் நம் பந்தல்
    உன் கூந்தல் என் ஊஞ்சல்

    வஸந்தங்கள் வாழ்த்தும்பொழுது
    உனது கிளையில் பூவாவேன்
    இலையுதிர் காலம் முழுதும்
    மகிழ்ந்து உனக்கு வேராவேன்
    வஸந்தங்கள் வாழ்த்தும்பொழுது
    உனது கிளையில் பூவாவேன்
    இலையுதிர் காலம் முழுதும்
    மகிழ்ந்து உனக்கு வேராவேன்
    பூவிலே மெத்தைகள் தைப்பேன்
    ஹா
    கண்ணுக்குள் மங்கையை வைப்பேன்
    ஹா
    பூவிலே மெத்தைகள் தைப்பேன்
    கண்ணுக்குள் மங்கையை வைப்பேன்
    நீ கட்டும் சேலைக்கு நூலாவேன் ஹா ஹா

    ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    பொன்மேகம் நம் பந்தல்
    உன் கூந்தல் என் ஊஞ்சல்
    உன் வார்த்தை சங்கீதங்கள்

    ரோஜாவைத் தாலாட்டும் தென்றல்
    பொன்மேகம் நம் பந்தல்
    பார்வையின் ஜாடையில் தோன்றிடும் ஆசையில் பாடிடும் எண்ணங்களே

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  3. #1122
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    ஹப் வரலாற்றிலேயே அதி வேக சதம் இதுவாகத்தானிருக்கும் என நினைக்கிறேன்!

    பிரமிப்புடன் கூடிய வாழ்த்துகள் disk.box!

  4. #1123
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    As promised, App, here is your request. I have written it a while ago, but could not post as was not here.

  5. #1124
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    Maadathile Kanni Maadathile - Veera

    Thamizh films and region/religion/caste cannot be separated as it reflects the vision of our people and society. Many directors use them to the positive effect while some others often tend to ridicule just for the sake of it. Since I have not watched many other language films (until recently), I cannot talk about them much, but I feel our films have covered and touched almost every region, religion and caste and closely depicted our lives, tradition and culture. Same way, when you consider our language in films, it has covered (and still doing with aplomb) almost every single slang of our language spoken at various regions. In that way, we can be proud that our films have always been closely following our lives (except recently we started seeing more violence, which I don't think is a part of any human tradition). Also we are slowly moving away from our tradition and towards western tradition and most of today's songs reflect that, except a few native surges here and there. Definitely our films even today are way better than other language films in terms of nativity and content.

    Language in songs have also undergone sea of changes and with a definite purpose. It has started with pure chaste thamizh with even including many loaned words from sanskrit and with many outstanding compositions and singing yet we could not clearly identify the region or the people from these songs. Songs were more classical was also one of the reasons. Slowly we moved to pure but understandable language (by late 50s/early60s) with songs slowly transforming to light-classical. Then we had songs even in colloquial thamizh (by 70s), but only occasionally. Still from the songs, we could not identify our region/religion/people, except for few flurries and except they were beautiful melodies. By 80s everything came to a full circle when film industry moved out of the studios more than ever and we started listening to songs truly from our people for our people, be it in city or any remote village, be it any slang or any subtle emotions, it was right there. Even with any naive situation, we are guaranteed to be transported to their lives. Even with great melodies we can identify the song and its people clearly without needing to watch the film or song. They just don't belong to melodies alone, but much more than that. For example, 'En kanmani un kaadhali' does not remain as just a melody, as we can hear the fresh morning Madras bus travel with different passengers from all over the city bounded as one entity. We can even hear the bus driver blowing horns, bus conductor's whistle and his sincere dialogues; indhaamma karuvaattu koodai munnaadi po', tenampettai super market irangu and a passenger's delight; 'nanna sonnEL pOngO', while the lovers are day dreaming. It is not just a song it has so many layers imbibed in it. It is a journey which closely reflect our daily routine life. With this song we are on a joyful journey and truly among our people of every region and religion. Where all this gone now? Are we not diminished to just a spectator (more often) hearing the melodies, appreciating it at that time, that's about it and it has nothing to relate to our life. Language plays an important role in a song (not just lyrics), as it is the one which tells us the evolution. Now there is only so much air in the language (yes that horrible style just pushing the air instead of words), losing its sternness, stubbornness and more importantly sweetness completely.

    Coming to the slang, we have heard Madras slang in many film songs starting from Chandrababu days till 80s/90s. Similarly we have seen 'kongu' thamizh songs in films like Sathi Leelavathi again in 90s and 'madurai' thamizh songs in Paruthi veteran and Azhagarsaamiyin Kudhirai. We have also heard numerous village (graamiyam) based songs from various regions. The beauty about some slang is even when it originated with some caste, it has always spread across a region. When we are talking about these songs, songs in brahmin dialect could not be ignored. Even when there were many films made in this category, the number of songs in this category are not much, but we had those right from Aduthaathu Ambujatha PaarthELaa (Edhir Neechal - V.Kumar), TheriyaadhO NEkku (Sooryakanthi - MSV), , KEttELE angE adha PaarthELaa IngE (BadrakaaLi - IR), Sundari neeyum (Michael Madhana Kamarajan - IR, though it has palakkad thamizh accent) and few more which I could not recollect now. Each song has its own charm. Aduthaathu Ambujatha - what a stunning song that clearly depicts the middle class sentiment in one of its beautiful slang with great lyrics by Vaali sir with great performances on screen.

    On these lines, we are going to discuss another stunner in Super Star's Maadathile Kanni Maadathile. Definitely this song brings back those good old 70s mentioned above. This song is a real fun to watch with Rajini at his very best. Whenever I hear this song, I could not hide comparing this with Kamal's Sundari Neeyum. Almost same situation, a dream song and both progress from love to betrothal to marriage and beyond. While Kamal's calm and subtle emotions blended with passion and romance keeps us engrossed totally, Rajini's innocence, carefree style, yet brutal approach makes us enjoy the fun ride thoroughly. While one is a visual poetry like a gentle stream, another one is a waterfall with splashes all over. One is a slow song and another is a fast one. Maestro uses Mridangam throughout giving the authentic thamizh touch in Maadathile, while he uses typical kerala percussion (chendamelam?) in Sundari giving authentic palakkad touch. Coming to singing; SPB and Swarnalatha Vs. Kamal and S Janaki. Maestro uses Brindavana Saranga in Maadathile and Kedharam in Sundari Neeyum. While Brindavan Saranga a janya of Karaharapriya, yet has a hindustani touch, Kedharam is a janya of Shankarabharanam. I have listened thousand times, but still could not come to any conclusion which is the best, but I could conclude one thing from both the songs that Maestro is the best!.

    Best reference songs for Brindavana Saranga is Ranga pura Vihara/Dikshitar, Ponnondru Kanden, Kamalaptakula/Thyagaraja. Maestro has composed many songs in Brindavana Saranga starting from Poongaatre (Kunguma Chimizh), KallukuLLe vantha (Manithanin Marupakkam), Aakasamlo (Swarna Kamalam), Konjum Kuyil Pattu and Koyil mani Kettene from Kanna Unnai Thedugiren, Muthamma (Thanthuvitten Ennai), Methuva Thanthi (Thaalaattu), Jilla Muzhukka (Priyanka) till Malar Villile (Ponnar Shankar) and few portions in Seetharaama Charitham (Sri Rama Rajyam) and few more. Has any of these songs resemble Maadathile Kanni Maadathile? Every song is completely different and only Maestro can bring various moods and emotions in the same raagam.

    Let us highlight the best portions of the song as we progress from prelude till the end. The first thing which took me by surprise is the usage of mridangam in this love song. Even in the timeless classic; Aayiram Thaamarai mottukkaLE' he has used it only in the prelude, but here he has used throughout the song including the interludes till the last beat. Just that it starts at 7th second and continues on and on even in interludes, except it has few pauses in between. While the mridangam usage is itself a surprise, there are still more surprises within that. I expected change of percussion and/or a pause in mridangam at several places based on the rhythm. When flute plays in the prelude, the tune slows down, but I thought the rhythm also slowed down, but could not believe it is same rhythm with mridangam when it was playing few seconds ago, during the choir (dhingu dhangu dhing). If you hear the starting mridangam when the choir is on, and the mridangam when the flute picks up, you will surely be deceived that they are playing different rhythms, but it is exactly the same. The tone of the flute tries to change the underlying rhythm and mesmerizes our ears to believe it is different (kaadhu katti vidhdhai). When again the choir starts, we come to know, it is the same pattern. it is unbelievable how the same rhythm pattern works for the most.

    When the pallavi starts normally there will be a pause in the percussion to stress the opening lines and after couple of words or the first line the percussion takes over again. In this song it is completely opposite. Maestro did not stop the mridangam when the pallavi starts and it continues in the same pattern till the first interlude when it takes two brief pauses and starts in the same fashion during charanams. The next pause comes for a fraction of second just before the start of second charanam. And what a take off there into the charanam. The last pause comes when SPB sings the repeat pallavi. Apart from these four pauses, to our surprise there is no stoppage for mridangam and no other percussion used in the entire song. In fact the number of instruments used in this song is very few; flute mridangam, synthesizer (for various sounds including the bell sound and first 6 seconds of synthdrum). Still the ambience is too good and very grand, thanks to the excellent choir providing excellent harmony. No high funda stuff in interludes, not even violin, but the surprises are everywhere. The trendiest song for any generation.

    Both the interludes are dominated by the choir supported by some synth arrangements on top of mridangam. If 'Maamaa enna sikkal maama O Oh…, Maami kaathirukalaama O Oh…' (I could not hear clearly this line, only hearing 'mama eNNa nikkalaama' which does not make sense, but it is clearly not 'sikkal mama', may be 'eNNa vaikkalaama?' as the visual goes with it, someone please clarify) by female choir in first interlude brings smile on our faces, the female choir and the flute in the second interlude brings the soothing mood (paravasa nilai ). The way female choir sang in these interludes was just mind blowing. I have never heard such a sweet chorus in a long time. That laziness in their singing in the first interlude and totally contrast erotic style in the second interlude makes us to rewind the interludes many times. Added to that, the male chorus adding more fun with O Oh… is just heavenly. Same way in the prelude when both female and male choir starts dhingu dhangu dhingu, there is second set of male chorus supports them with chikku chakku which goes well with the mridangam.

    ->Supreme highlight of the song is the rhythm pattern. It follows the standard 8-beat cycle (Aadhi thalam - or 4/4 time signature) with no variation. But on a closure hear I found one astonishing beauty when SPB sings 'Maami chinna maami, madisaar azhagi vaadi sivagaami'. While maami chinna maami follows the standard 8-beat cycle, madisaar azhagi vaadi sivagaami extends/overlaps to the 9th beat where exactly the chorus dhingu dhaanu dhingu starts as its 1st beat and ends its 8-beat cycle. Maestro utilizes the time from 8th beat to 1st beat of the next cycle efficiently and adds the sandham upto the next beat so that we hear sivagaami fully, but the time was actually upto 'sivagaa'. So the 'mi' of sivagaami and 'dhi' of dhingu are sung at the same time, so that we don't miss a beat and there is no extra beat. How efficiently every note was written and composed. . After hearing this, I am reminded of Thenali Rama's story and how he divided 17 (a prime number) elephants to three sons of a wealthy man such that first son got half of total, the second one-third and third one-ninth. This tells us a big story of precision and mathematician of our times. All this should have been no brainer for him and happens on the spur of moment. Genius unparalleled!

    I feel it is a very difficult song to write. Even when the song is about love, it is also an exchange of words between the couples and also in a particular slang which makes it difficult to fit in the sandham. You have to use all these trademark words madisaar maami, iyer aathu piLLE, pomnaatti, poonoolE, empEchcha kEppEL, ennAvELO, aathukkaari, nachcharippELA, yENNA at respective places and also making meaningful and not just for the sake of it. Really a tremendous job. I think it is Vaali sir. Definitely I don't miss Vairamuthu here. Great fun!

    Suresh Krishna did a good job overall in picturization, except he did a couple of mistakes in the marriage rituals which he could have avoided. In a brahmin marriage, the bride will be sitting on her father's lap while groom ties her the knot standing in front of her. Here it was shown Meena sitting beside Rajini which is not correct. Same way during second charanam Rajini would be holding flowers in his left ear, it should be on his right ear. Even Singeetham Srinivasa Rao/Kamal missed the first part (of tying knot) in MMKR.

    Right from the prelude till the end, visually it is a Rajini show completely. We also have to compliment Meena, she did tremendously well as madisaar maami with apt mannerisms. Coming to Rajini, thiruneer on his forehead appear bright. He starts with a casual walk with the 'iyeraathu' girls and then starts some simple dance steps. @0:26 typical Rajini style asking us 'How is it' without uttering it. Great idea! Those days watching a Rajini song that too in theatre is something very special as we can see lot of subtle mannerisms. The one which immediately captured me is @0.54 when he sings 'maami chinna maami madisaar azhagi vaadi sivagaami'. Please watch how subtly Rajini winks his left eye when he sings 'vaadi'. It is very subtle that we can miss that action if we were not careful enough. What a grace and style and top of all, he does it very casually. Where is that Rajini now? We want him back. @1:45 one girl almost slaps him hard (even that was meant to be funny), we were all little angry on that girl and you have to see how Rajini manages without any difference shown in his face. The dance step after that is real funny and hilarious. Just before the 1st charanam Rajini gently taps and get annoyed as Meena was not responding her. Again you have to see his face, almost like a child. Just when he starts the charanam, he goes little stunned looking at her beauty. You can see that completely in his face, when he sings simultaneously, daaladikkira nalla vara atti, pOlirukkira nee than romba chutti'. Especially when he sings 'romba chutti' he smashes his teeth hard. When Meena sings 'aasa vaikkirEl rommba nanna maalai ittadhum maara koodadhunna' Rajini suddenly getting serious and he makes a promise on poonal and immediately cools down when he sings 'sri krishnan naanalladi'. Rajini at this best when 'aathukkari rommba control paNNa control aagadhadi' and also when the mimics the girls. Too good! All credit to SPB when he improvises 'Vaadi sivagaami vaadi na' and Rajini following with his inimitable style. After he ties the knot, he teases Meena like a child again. If this is all not enough, @4:45 greatest of all, his stunning action when he sings 'anaichukkalaam'. He just expands his chest and shakes his head (and hair) then pounches on Meena. It all happens in seconds. Literally all these scenes made me watch the film many times, just for those memorable moments. Shall we bring this Rajini back at any cost? Missing him so much. One of the last films where I admired Rajini very much (not to forget Sivaji the boss).

    Singing wise I don't have to tell about SPB. No one else could even think about singing this song the way SPB did it. Best in business as always and the most dependable singer of all times. Swarnalatha complements SPB very well with her best 'brahmin' slang. In the pallavi-anupallavi when SPB repeats 'madisaar azhagi vaadi sivagaami' for the second time, the way he improvises by adding a subtle yodeling between every phrase is phenomenal. Same way, when he starts the first charanam; Daaladakkira nalla vaira atti', he stresses the words vaira atti with a gap, but there is no gap during 'daaladikkira nalla'. This is all not in chandham at all, all his ideas to improve. He could have sung without stressing those words, but see the effect it creates after those improvisations. Same way next line too and finishes with his bright smile aha.. oho..hey..hey..hey in a typical Rajini style hoping he would laught at those portions. He does the laughing even better during second charanam. Not to forget his best 'vaadi sivagaami vaadinna'. Those glorious minute sangathis (extensions) of 'iyeraathu ponnu' gives us a tickle. Even when I love each word of SPB' singing, just for mentioning, the best portion I love is, 'madhyaana nEram paai poda sonnaa maattennu solluviyO'. He starts in a husky fashion and going harder during 'maattEnnu' and again going softer during 'solluviyO'. Just in one line, the amount of variation he brings cannot be matched by anyone. Why are we not much using him? No playback singer can be born with a talent like him. It is a pity younger generations are not learning from him. I am still wondering why the best actors, music directors, singers all stopped with them and no one is caring to take their legacy (in art) forward even with so much talent around. As Plum always says, democracy in art will never work.

    This is where Maestro stands tallest of the tallest. You give him exactly the same situation again and again, yet he will come up with totally different tunes with no relation to each other. Of all his biggest strengths, this is the biggest one. Mind you, he never used his WCM ideas, nor folk in both these songs unless they were really required. He got away with just synthesizers and percussion. But here he demonstrated his excellent carnatic classical skills and brought out a beautiful flavor in Brindavana Saranga which we have never heard. As they say, this is the most pleasing and emotional raagam, we can hear the pleasantness in this song. A song is not by arrangements or style or even singing. If the tune is right, everything is right. If the tune is wrong and bland, everything is wrong IMHO. Maestro gives ample scope for variations and sweetness so that SPB can be on his own world enjoying thoroughly. The way he starts the charanam in a subdued manner, slowly gearing up during the middle lines and finishing off in top gear is absolutely stunning to hear!. We will get the real taste we we try to hum this song. With tune (in carnatic classical) taking the biggest honors, Maestro utilizes one of his another biggest strength which no one got it. I was thinking with not much grand orchestration, how the song feels so much grand? The choir. Give Maestro just the choir, he will come with winners. He has done the same in numerous occasions including the famous ponOviyam, YErilyilE elanthamaram, Naan Porandhathu (a cappella) and here too. As I mentioned earlier, right from the prelude and in the interludes choir dominates even surpassing the synthesizer beauties which again proves human voices are more precious than precious instruments which most of them never care to utilize it fully. Even in this last film with Rajini, every song was a blockbuster hit (right from Adi Pandhalile to Aathula AnnakkiLi to Konji Konji to Maadathile to Malai Koyil Vaasalile to Vaadi Veththala), he has never disappointed any one. There is not a single instance that because of his bad music, the directors/producers switched to other music directors. Does it say something?

    We can even notice that by 90s, Maestro was slowly moving away from the already treaded areas and trying to go more with the trend and people. Unfortunately people remained in his past and unwilling to move forward with him. You can see in this song. There is a Jaanavasam (maapillai azhaippu) followed by subha muhurtham. Surprisingly you don't see the 'maangalyam thandhunaane' or the Nadaswaram or getti mELam when Rajini is tying the nuptial knot which we used to hear in some of his songs. He made it so light and fun that you don't miss that. Still he never comprised on the tune (melody) or the grandness and in achieving it. How? He already possesses every biggest strength required in composing, be it orchestration, tune, arrangements including choir arrangements, genres, whatever you call it. Only thing he needed to do is little tweaking (cosmetics) to keep up with the trend, keeping his all other skills intact. He never compromised these basics while moving forward. He assures that his music is always simple and focussed to the end listener and hides all the complexities behind. He never changed all this, it is still the same right from AnnakiLi days till today, but people misunderstand/misinterpret that his music has suddenly become complex and not catering to common people. How is that suddenly possible? I would say it is the other way round. One thing is for sure, he cannot stoop down compromising his basics. From a small house to any big storey building architecture, all that is needed is a solid foundation. If that is to be compromised for a beautiful architecture, Maestro definitely sees a danger and we are all with him. This composition is one such which was built on a strong foundation (melody, raagam and singing) which glitters in its eternal architecture (choir, arrangements and lyrics) while Rajini and the whole team of Veera are fascinated by living inside this generously built solid structure, while Maestro just flashes a smile and moves on.

    Again this song is just not a melody as I stated above and most of Ilaiyaraaja's song don't just belong to melody so that we can say, 'fill it up and forget it'. It has more perspectives if we wish to dig deeper. We are never listening to any Ilaiyaraaja's song without getting the visuals in front of us (not the exact film visuals, even our own imagination) or without getting transported to that context. Unfortunately this has become an evil nowadays. As the above example carries us to a bus ride, this composition carries us to a wedding and the rituals. Even when you are just listening, there will always be a landscape before us. Why all this? There is a reason of belief. I will end this with Osho's note. You will know what I am trying to convey. Happy listening!

    'Once a boy bought a goat from the market and was going home. Thieves wanted to snatch the goat from the boy, but instead of snatching from him directly, they employed a trick. They came to him and asked him, how much did he pay for the dog. The boy answered, don't you see, it is a goat, not a dog. They said, it is up to you to say that, but it is a dog for us. The boy checked the goat, its feet again and confirmed himself it is a goat. Later another gang of thieves came and said, you have a wonderful dog!. The boy could not insist that it is a goat, instead said, it may be, but it is weaker. His foundations are shaken, still he said, it is a goat. He again made sure, looked at the goat several times and confirmed it is indeed a goat. Then the third set of thieves came and said, you got a beautiful dog, we wish we had one like your dog. The poor boy said, if you want a dog, here it is, please take it and relieve me. Then he ran home, but was he really relieved? This is how a man lives'.



    Lyrics: http://www.dhool.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2714

  6. #1125
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber venkkiram's Avatar
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    V_S sir! மகிழ்ச்சியா இருக்கு! நீங்க திரும்பி வந்ததற்கு!
    சொல்லிச் சொல்லி ஆறாது சொன்னா துயர் தீராது...

  7. #1126
    Senior Member Senior Hubber
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    V_S ji ..Welcome back and what a fantastic comeback post
    This is a song which more or less epitomises Tam Bram culture ..Just love this song..
    Read your entire post in one go..Arumai.

  8. #1127
    Senior Member Senior Hubber Devaraagam's Avatar
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    Welcome back V_S, you came with fantastic and very detailed post.
    Music Unities Everyone

  9. #1128
    Senior Member Senior Hubber Devaraagam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V_S View Post
    Maadathile Kanni Maadathile - Veera

    Singing wise I don't have to tell about SPB. No one else could even think about singing this song the way SPB did it. Best in business as always and the most dependable singer of all times. Swarnalatha complements SPB very well with her best 'brahmin' slang. In the pallavi-anupallavi when SPB repeats 'madisaar azhagi vaadi sivagaami' for the second time, the way he improvises by adding a subtle yodeling between every phrase is phenomenal. Same way, when he starts the first charanam; Daaladakkira nalla vaira atti', he stresses the words vaira atti with a gap, but there is no gap during 'daaladikkira nalla'. This is all not in chandham at all, all his ideas to improve. He could have sung without stressing those words, but see the effect it creates after those improvisations.
    In Jaya TV (I think) when one girl was singing this song, he appreciated and said its difficult for girls to sing this song, Ilaiyaraja only asked me to do all kind of shestai in the songs as he felt it would very apt for the song. you can look youtube posts called ilaiyaraja oru ratchasan..like it.. (youtube is blocked in office )
    Music Unities Everyone

  10. #1129
    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber
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    Welcome back V_S Ungal sevai thodarattum

  11. #1130
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    Thank you very much venkkiram, skr, devaraagam, Divine 22, San_K and everyone. I am glad that I am back, was missing you all. Special thanks to KV and skr as they have been in touch and sharing their music experience which put me back in place.
    Last edited by V_S; 12th August 2012 at 10:38 PM.

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